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Blowing her to start?

  • Thread starter Thread starter maro
  • Start date Start date
M

maro

Guest
My bike lives outside during the summer. I cover it I'm not riding for a few days or chance of rain. so far this summer it's started right up without choke. It's been a hot summer. But after having it sit this week-end, and lots of rain and cooler temps, I had a hard time starting yesterday, even with choke. I had to blow some air into the carb vent to get her to catch. I noticed a bunch of white smoke after while warming up. After that, and the rest of the day she was fine. This has not happened all summer . Was the smoke and hard start due to condensation?

Today, she just need a bit of choke, there was Lots of dew on her and was much cooler out (left her uncovered last night). Took a few cranks though.

My valves were recently checked and my carbs are in order. So what up?
 
maro said:
My bike lives outside during the summer. I cover it I'm not riding for a few days or chance of rain. so far this summer it's started right up without choke. It's been a hot summer. But after having it sit this week-end, and lots of rain and cooler temps, I had a hard time starting yesterday, even with choke. I had to blow some air into the carb vent to get her to catch. I noticed a bunch of white smoke after while warming up. After that, and the rest of the day she was fine. This has not happened all summer . Was the smoke and hard start due to condensation?

Today, she just need a bit of choke, there was Lots of dew on her and was much cooler out (left her uncovered last night). Took a few cranks though.

My valves were recently checked and my carbs are in order. So what up?
Click to expand...
How recently? Its been rather chilly at night around here too, last couple of nights ive left work, there was dew on my seat (bummer, or rather, cold wet bummer...heheh) I had some trouble getting her to start the first chilly night, but I had hit reserve when i got to work, and the temp drop likely caused the gas to compress in the float bowls, so it took a couple more cranks than normal. But last night, with a full tank, she fired right up. What you speak of as far as white smoke is surely condensation from MY guess. Mine does it when its chilly too. But it gone as soon as she runs a minute or two. If its been more than 3000 miles since your last valve check, Id think about checking them again, as this is a classic symptom of being in need of a valve adjustment. (hard cold starting) Also, something else to try, next time this happens, put the petcock on PRIME for a few seconds, and see if it makes a difference. Like I said, if the temp drops, and i dont know if this actually happens or not, but it makes sense that it would, the fuel in the line and float bowls might contract, and she's not got enough to fire untill some vaccum pulls some more into the bowls. PRIME may aleviate this issue.
 
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Might try some new NGK spark plug caps. Thats a quick, cheap and easy project. If your issues are moisture related Id start there.
 
TheCafeKid said:
How recently? Its been rather chilly at night around here too, last couple of nights ive left work, there was dew on my seat (bummer, or rather, cold wet bummer...heheh) I had some trouble getting her to start the first chilly night, but I had hit reserve when i got to work, and the temp drop likely caused the gas to compress in the float bowls, so it took a couple more cranks than normal. But last night, with a full tank, she fired right up. What you speak of as far as white smoke is surely condensation from MY guess. Mine does it when its chilly too. But it gone as soon as she runs a minute or two. If its been more than 3000 miles since your last valve check, Id think about checking them again, as this is a classic symptom of being in need of a valve adjustment. (hard cold starting) Also, something else to try, next time this happens, put the petcock on PRIME for a few seconds, and see if it makes a difference. Like I said, if the temp drops, and i dont know if this actually happens or not, but it makes sense that it would, the fuel in the line and float bowls might contract, and she's not got enough to fire untill some vaccum pulls some more into the bowls. PRIME may aleviate this issue.
Click to expand...

Recently, as in 1000 miles ago. Maybe even less. Did them about 2 months ago. I did hit prime for about 20 - 30 sec, but still didn't catch. I coulda kept on cranking, but I get fearful of killing the battery. Blowing into the vent worked, but that seems like last resort. and yeah, the smoke was only for about 30 sec.

Just wanted to be sure it wasn't some weird carb issue. I hate those weird carb issues:o

bonanzadave said:
Might try some new NGK spark plug caps. Thats a quick, cheap and easy project. If your issues are moisture related Id start there.
Click to expand...
already gottem on there. heh.

thanks for feedback guys.
 
If your bike likes getting blowed it's probably not a "she/her" :lol:
 
Killer2600 said:
If your bike likes getting blowed it's probably not a "she/her" :lol:
Click to expand...

maybe, but I refuse to say I woke up this morning and blew HIM to start.....not that there is anything wrong with that...eh hem


SPEAKING OF WHICH...

I had to Blow start my girl AGAIN this morning. WTF is going on.
 
been a few weeks since this original post. It's been going down to about 50 every night this week ,and ever morning I have to blow into the vent tube to get her started. Once that happens, she is fine for the rest of the day.

Priming does not work. choke does not work. This only happens when sitting overnight in cold conditions. and yes...valves are clear.

According the TCK, " if the temp drops, and i dont know if this actually happens or not, but it makes sense that it would, the fuel in the line and float bowls might contract, and she's not got enough to fire untill some vaccum pulls some more into the bowls."

I agree that this is the problem. So ,what else can be done to alleviate me having to blow the side of my bike every morning?:rolleyes:
 
maro said:
been a few weeks since this original post. It's been going down to about 50 every night this week ,and ever morning I have to blow into the vent tube to get her started. Once that happens, she is fine for the rest of the day.

Priming does not work. choke does not work. This only happens when sitting overnight in cold conditions. and yes...valves are clear.

According the TCK, " if the temp drops, and i dont know if this actually happens or not, but it makes sense that it would, the fuel in the line and float bowls might contract, and she's not got enough to fire untill some vaccum pulls some more into the bowls."

I agree that this is the problem. So ,what else can be done to alleviate me having to blow the side of my bike every morning?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


I don't know if you could say that fuel contracts THAT much, besides, as soon as you hit the starter button the petcock turns on anyway and the fuel flows to fill up the bowls. I think you could throw this theory out the window anyway because you said you used "Prime" and it had no effect. Though it might be a good idea to check your petcock for correct operation: flow with vacuum, flow on Prime, that there is GOOD flow on both.

If valves are all correct tolerances, should be no problem there. You say it runs fine other than a little trouble starting sometimes when it's cold. It IS an old bike with old technology, so don't expect it to work perfectly all the time. There's a reason why manufacturers went to fuel injection. Old bikes are quirky, and sometimes the bestest thing you can do is find what works to coax them into operation. If a little blow in the morning is what she likes, that's what she gets. I'd say don't worry about such trivial things if she doesn't leave you stranded in no-man's land somewhere in the backwoods of Maine. Is that a banjo I hear? :D Nothing against folks from Maine.
 
rudy said:
It IS an old bike with old technology, so don't expect it to work perfectly all the time. There's a reason why manufacturers went to fuel injection. Old bikes are quirky, and sometimes the bestest thing you can do is find what works to coax them into operation. If a little blow in the morning is what she likes, that's what she gets.
Click to expand...


Some of them do work perfectly all the time, if all is well they will always start just fine in very cold weather. Quirkiness is just an excuse for something not being right.

They went to fuel injection because it's gotten cheaper than carburetors, and passes emissions tests easier, easier starting is not an issue as these bikes started fine in the cold when they were new, and still do when they are working properly.

I don't know exactly what is wrong with the bike in question, could be several things around the fuel/carburetion areas, but there is something you could do that would fix it.
You just need to find out what.

Or keep on giving it head and hoping for the best.
 
i'm gonna guess you're turning it to reserve instead of prime, or the inner filter screen is plugged.
 
tkent02 said:
You just need to find out what.

Or keep on giving it head and hoping for the best.
Click to expand...

Well, that is why I am posting these issues on these here boards. LOL:)


I replaced the petcock last year. and yes, I am turning it to prime, not reserve. I know there is gas in the bowl, because when I blow into the vent...gas leaks out of the bowl gasket slightly. It doesn't leak under normal circumstance as I have set my float height correct. Just happens when I blow into the vent.

thanks for all the help thus far. i know there is something here to fix, just not sure what....
 
It's flooding out. Make sure your air filter is unobstructed.....If you crack your throttle open about an 1/8th of a turn, it should admit enough air to start it without giving it a blow job...:)
 
DanTheMan said:
It's flooding out. Make sure your air filter is unobstructed.....If you crack your throttle open about an 1/8th of a turn, it should admit enough air to start it without giving it a blow job...:)
Click to expand...


Okay, now we are getting somewhere. What do you mean flooding out. What is that process and why or how could a filter obstruction cause that...

what I am looking for when I look at my air filter?

thanks
 
Flooding out means you're getting too much fuel and not enough air for combustion. If a carbureted engine (or any other for that matter) has too much fuel and not enough air, the spark plug cannot provide enough spark for combustion in the cylinders. You need the whole fire triangle for combustion to happen, fuel, oxygen & spark. Anyway, I'm digressing.... if your air filter is really dirty, it can cause a lack of airflow, causing an overly rich mixture to enter the cylinders. Try starting it with the filter removed, see what happens. If it starts, it'll probably run like crap, because it'll be too lean, but you'll know that you should replace or clean the air filter then anyway.
Hope this helps.
Dan
 
DanTheMan said:
Flooding out means you're getting too much fuel and not enough air for combustion. If a carbureted engine (or any other for that matter) has too much fuel and not enough air, the spark plug cannot provide enough spark for combustion in the cylinders. You need the whole fire triangle for combustion to happen, fuel, oxygen & spark. Anyway, I'm digressing.... if your air filter is really dirty, it can cause a lack of airflow, causing an overly rich mixture to enter the cylinders. Try starting it with the filter removed, see what happens. If it starts, it'll probably run like crap, because it'll be too lean, but you'll know that you should replace or clean the air filter then anyway.
Hope this helps.
Dan
Click to expand...

I hope it's that simple. My only though here is. ALL day long... beyond the morning startup...she fires with perfection. It's only after a cool, dewy night that the start-up is an issue. So . . . if it was a clogged air filter, wouldn't start up be an issue everytime? oh and thanks!
 
You've probably got a float valve or 2 leaking, allowing the fuel in the carburetor bowls to flood the cylinders (common problem), and your petcock could also be leaking, worsening it. If you don't have an off position on your petcock that's probably the cause. By now, your oil is probably diluted with gas and should be changed.
You should only have gas flowing to the carbs from the tank when the bike is running. Make sure your petcock is in the "on" position and not the "pri" position. If it has an "off" position, it should be off when parked.
 
Could condensation on the filters/inside the carbs be causing an initial breathing problem?
 
There's a good chance the choke fuel jet in the floats bowls are plugged from debris in the float bowls. This would prevent fuel from being available for proper choke operation. Blowing in the vent tubes would momentarily pressurize the fuel and most likely force some fuel out the idle circuit allowing the bike to start. The slide #77 shows this jet http://www.thegsresources.com/gs_carb_07.htm which is very small and easily plugged, if you're really good you can probably get the float bowls off without removing the carbs. Like mentioned before, the bike should start easily in cold temperatures.
 
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