Broken valve spring?

[razooki]

I was checking my valve clearances today and I noticed that the bucket from the exhaust valve on #2 will not push up against the cam. The cam lobe will push it down but the bucket does not spring up to put pressure against the cam. Could it be a broket valve spring? Just a stuck valve? What am I looking at here?

 

[rapidray]

It could be a bent valve. That would be my guess. Pull the carbs, & exhaust to look into the ports. If it is a bent valve the head will have to come off. If it were mine, I would just be pulling the head already. Ray.

 

[razooki]

Well, I did buy this bike as a learning project and it's turning out to be just that. At least i'll have something to do this winter.

Raz

 

[mighty13d]

no matter what.. that's sounding like the head needs to come off. Take your time following the manuals and don't loose any parts and you will be all set. It's not that hard of a task.

 

[razooki]

Just curious what would cause a bent valve? I plan to change the valve seals while I have the top end out but what else should I look at?

 

[Nessism]

Check the valve to valve guide clearance and the condition of both the valve and valve seats in the head.

Bent valves are rare unless the cam timing jumped and the valve hit a piston.

 

[trippivot]

pull the cam out and get the bucket up and off look and see. chances are you are going farther . check all valve clearances first and write it all down all information , draw diagrams or take digital photos. it will help the first few times you tear down an engine.

 

[razooki]

pull the cam out and get the bucket up and off look and see. chances are you are going farther . check all valve clearances first and write it all down all information , draw diagrams or take digital photos. it will help the first few times you tear down an engine.

Valve clearances are checked and recorded. I'll start with pulling the cams and buckets since I'd have to do that anyway to remove the top end and then go from there. Is there a way to check the valve seals without actually taking them out since if I take them out I have to replace them? I know they're inexpensive but Z1 is out of stock on them and I don't want to pay the stealer their exorbitant prices.

 

[Steve]

Z1 is not the only supplier.

They're not the cheapest this time, either.

Alpha Sport 6.77
Babbitt's 4.01
Bike Bandit 5.01
Carolina Cycle 4.42
Cycle Re-Cycle 2.79
Full Throttle 4.41
Motogrid 4.26
PartShark 4.08
Parts-n-More 2.00
Ron Ayres 4.67
Z1 2.16

.

 

[salty_monk]

Depending on the Gasket kit you get you may find valve seals are included... I found one for my 1000G for about $45 for the whole kit.

You'll probably want to replace the base gasket at the same time as the head gasket anyway.

I can't find the link now but it's the same gasket Nessism used in his 1000 so he'll prob be able to tell you the brand.

Dan

 

[salty_monk]

Here you go... it was an Athena. Parts n More do them. Price is a little higher than I remember, maybe the $45 was on Ebay or different supplier.

https://www.partsnmore.com/motorcycle-gasket_sets.php?make=suzuki&category=gasket_set

Dan

 

[razooki]

You'll probably want to replace the base gasket at the same time as the head gasket anyway.

Dan

Excuse my ignorance but is the head gasket the valve cover gasket and the base gasket the one below - between the crank and the cylinders? Also are there any special tools that I would need to remove valves, seals etc.? I have watched the video on valve installation on BassCliff's site so I know about the C-clamp and cut out PVC pipe. I assume I can use the same set up to remove the valves but is there anything else?

 

[salty_monk]

There are 3... (or 4 if you count the breather cover gasket) starting at the top, valve cover gasket, head gasket, Base gasket. Base gasket is literally right on top of the transmission, head is about half way up & valve cover is about 1.5" from the top if that makes sense.

You'll need a valve spring compressor of the right size is the only thing I think - I haven't done one myself on a suzuki. I have seen pics of ones people have adapted to work on here. Someone will show you a pic.

Find out what Chef1366 uses - he changes a head for breakfast before going to work :lol:

 

[razooki]

You'll probably want to replace the base gasket at the same time as the head gasket anyway.
Dan

Ok, please help me understand this. If I'm only removing the top end whay would I have to replace the base gasket? I can see replacing the head gasket and the valve cover gasket.

Thanks,

Raz

 

[Guest]

you can remove the valves with a hammer and a deep socket

 

[Steve]

Excuse my ignorance but is the head gasket the valve cover gasket and the base gasket the one below - between the crank and the cylinders? Also are there any special tools that I would need to remove valves, seals etc.? I have watched the video on valve installation on BassCliff's site so I know about the C-clamp and cut out PVC pipe. I assume I can use the same set up to remove the valves but is there anything else?

As Salty Monk mentioned, starting at the top is the breather cover, which has a gasket. That is the T-shaped piece that's about 5x7 inches and has a hose coming out the back that goes to the airbox. Next is the valve cover and its gasket. The valve cover is the large H-shaped cover that you see sticking out under the edges of the tank. The valve cover is just over an inch high, and you can see its gasket quite easily. Next is the head. The head is what contains the spark plugs and valves, and also has the ports for the carbs and exhaust pipes. The head gasket is just below those ports. The cylinders are the finned areas below the head, and the base gasket is at the bottom of it.

Any time you remove the head, there is a very good chance that you moved the cylinders in the process, and it was probably just enough to disturb the seal, so it's good practice to replace the base gasket, too.

Glad you liked the video, my son and I had fun making it. I only showed putting the valves back in, but you can use the same tool to remove the valves, too. It will be quicker, since you don't have to fight the keepers in the process of taking them out. To remove the seals, find something with a lip on the bottom, reach under the seals and pull up. They simply slide into place, but after many years of heat cycling, they will be rather stuck.

Whenever I have taken valves out, I tend to use a bit of lapping compound on the valves. Just a light application will show you the seating area. If the valves are still in decent shape, this will show up very quickly as a nice narrow band of polished metal.

The only "special" tool you might need is a torque wrench to re-install the head, but you should really have one of those anyway. Torque values are relatively low, about 27 lbs-ft, so a decent 3/8" drive wrench will do nicely.

.

 

[razooki]

Any time you remove the head, there is a very good chance that you moved the cylinders in the process, and it was probably just enough to disturb the seal, so it's good practice to replace the base gasket, too.

.

Steve, are you telling me that I have to tear the engine apart just to look at the valves? 'Cause that's what it sounds like to me. Remove the head to check the valves but then remove the cylinders just to replace the base gasket?

 

[Steve]

Steve, are you telling me that I have to tear the engine apart just to look at the valves? 'Cause that's what it sounds like to me. Remove the head to check the valves but then remove the cylinders just to replace the base gasket?

Yep. If you don't tear it apart, the only part of the valve you will be able to inspect is the tip that the bucket pushes on to open it.
If you are simply wanting to check the clearances on the valves, you only need to remove the valve cover and the ignition cover on the right end of the crank.

If you are also wanting to change the valve seals, you will have to pull the head, as you need to be able to squeeze the springs to remove the keepers and the valves.

Yes, since you will most likely bump the cylinders in the process of removing the head, change the base gasket. If you don't, you might see a leak from the base gasket, and I don't want to be around to hear the language when you find out that you have to take it all apart again and put it together with new gaskets, just because you did not want to take another half hour to do it right the first time.

There are times that I find it amusing that some of us that have experienced a procedure and have tried to relate that as a learning experience, but are met with doubt by those who think they know a better way. I'm not saying this is you, Raz, but I'm sure you have seen it many times on here, too. The most popular 'short cut' is dropping the float bowls and spraying the parts you can see, then proclaiming that you "cleaned the carbs". After taking the carbs out again (and again), you start to believe some of what we write.

OK I'll get down off my soapbox now.

.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

I would bet you have a broken spring..You can stuff some rope into the cylinder to hole the valve up.To enable you to replace the spring. BUT you should remove the head and have all the valves and springs check. You can swap parts around & reinstall the cam and check the clearance. If the clearance is still very large ? definately would have a bent valve.
Your call !!!

 

[razooki]

Steve, I'll be honest I have my doubts but something tells me you must have learned this the hard way at some point in the past!! I'll post my findings when I dismantle the head - with pictures of course.

Thanks again,

Raz