Broken valve spring?

[razooki]

Yes, since you will most likely bump the cylinders in the process of removing the head, change the base gasket. If you don't, you might see a leak from the base gasket, and I don't want to be around to hear the language when you find out that you have to take it all apart again and put it together with new gaskets, just because you did not want to take another half hour to do it right the first time.

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I took a closer look at the repair manual and I just want to make sure I get this straight. I think I know what you're talking about now Steve. If I get this right the cylinders are 'sandwiched' between the head and the crank and are held in place by the nuts on top of the head right? So if I remove the head I won't see another set of nuts holding down the cylinders. That is why if I remove the head the cylinders will be 'loose'.
But then if my assumption is correct if I remove the cylinders won't I need a tool to re-insert the pistons?

 

[Dogma]

I did it this spring on that same engine. You can use hose clamps as a ring compressor. The only really challenging part is getting the gasket surfaces clean.

Well, that and wrestling cylinders and pistons. Put the bike in gear (I liked 5th) to get control of crank rotation. Start with #2 & 3 pistons high. Get them into the cylinders. Turn the rear wheel slowly until #1 & 4 meet the cylinders. Make sure the pistons go into the bores straight. Lay a board across the engine case to hold them up and straight as they enter the cylinders. The weight of the cylinders and some light pounding with your fist will be enough to drive the cylinders over the pistons. Once the pistons are in, the cylinders will just fall over them, so watch out for that.

Don't force anything. It's easy to break rings, damage pistons, etc. Think it through, follow the instructions, be patient, don't be afraid to start over. It took me several tries, though I'm sure I could get it in one now.

Vesrah base gasket and o-rings will leak oil. We have a few documented cases around here.

 

[Steve]

I took a closer look at the repair manual and I just want to make sure I get this straight. I think I know what you're talking about now Steve. If I get this right the cylinders are 'sandwiched' between the head and the crank and are held in place by the nuts on top of the head right? So if I remove the head I won't see another set of nuts holding down the cylinders. That is why if I remove the head the cylinders will be 'loose'.
But then if my assumption is correct if I remove the cylinders won't I need a tool to re-insert the pistons?

You are right, the cylinder block is just sandwiched in there, there are no other retainers, once you pull the head.

As Dogma mentioned, you might use hose clamps, but I have found fingers to work the best. The bottoms of the cylinder liners are tapered a bit, which makes it easier to funnel the rings into place. One of my three manuals had the suggestion to make a tool to hold the pistons in place while lowering the cylinder block over them, I am attaching a picture from the manual. You need to make two of these guys. Put them under pistons 2&3, lower the block until the rings are ready to slide in the bottom. By reaching around the piston, you can squeeze the ring in and allow the cylinder to come down just a bit. It helps a bit to have a helper for this part. You will have to alternate sides, dropping one side at a time, but you will soon have all the rings in both cylinders. Pull the forked blocks, rotate the crank, squeeze the rings into the outer cylinders.

Here are the blocks:

I have found the dimensions to not be too critical. The overall width needs to fit between the cylinder studs. The slot needs to straddle the connecting rod. The overall length needs to straddle the hole, but be short enough to pull it out, once the cylinder is in place.

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[razooki]

Thanks Steve, this will definitely come in handy.

 

[razooki]

There's nothing wrong with my valves!! I just took out the head and when I turned it over to look at the valves I notices that the #2 exhaust valve was being held open by the tip of the zip tie I used to measure the valve clearances!! As soon as I removed it the valve closed. I guess it could have been worst so I'm not too upset. I've never done this before so it was a few hours well spent.

I had to take the plastic chain runner out to remove the head so any tips on how to put it back? Also, the gasket had some liquid gasket around the opening for the chain. Is that necessary?

Thanks,

Raz

 

[Nessism]

There's nothing wrong with my valves!! I just took out the head and when I turned it over to look at the valves I notices that the #2 exhaust valve was being held open by the tip of the zip tie I used to measure the valve clearances!! As soon as I removed it the valve closed. I guess it could have been worst so I'm not too upset. I've never done this before so it was a few hours well spent.

I had to take the plastic chain runner out to remove the head so any tips on how to put it back? Also, the gasket had some liquid gasket around the opening for the chain. Is that necessary?

Thanks,

Raz

Sounds like you took off the head for nothing. Didn't you notice the head of the zip tie was broken off when you extracted it? Oh and sealer on the cam tunnel O-ring is not recommended.

 

[razooki]

Sounds like you took off the head for nothing. Didn't you notice the head of the zip tie was broken off when you extracted it?

No.

Oh and sealer on the cam tunnel O-ring is not recommended.

There is no O-ring just the liquid gasket. Should there be one?

Any tips on putting back the chain guard?

 

[Steve]

Any tips on putting back the chain guard?

Chain guard or chain runner? :-k

The front guide (runner) for the cam chain simply slides into place. Just make sure it's seated correctly so the top is flush with the cylinder block.

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[Nessism]

You need new gaskets when installing the head. Some of the newer type head gaskets are made from multi layer steel and do not use a rubber seal around the cam tunnel. In either case, no need for gasket goop anywhere on the head gasket.

 

[razooki]

Thanks Ed & Steve. One more question. Since the head is out I would like to take a look at the valve seals. The PO replaced #4 piston but I'm not sure if he did anything to the valve seals. I bought the bike right after he did this so the engine has not run for any extended time but when I did have it running it was blowing some blue smoke on deceleration (from what I've read it is indicative of bad seals). Is this normal with a 'fresh' engine? If I remove the valves & springs can I take a look inside to check the seals? I really don't want to change them if they are OK (I know they're inexpensive but as someone once said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it").

 

[Nessism]

If I remove the valves & springs can I take a look inside to check the seals? I really don't want to change them if they are OK (I know they're inexpensive but as someone once said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it").

The seals can not be checked by visual inspection. They are cheap so I strongly advise you to just change them and consider lapping the valves while they are out of the head (number the valves to they get back into their original hole).

Good luck

 

[Steve]

On BassCliff's site, you can find a video that my son and I made, showing how to make a rather inexpensive valve spring compressor.
You will need that to check/replace your seals.

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[razooki]

On BassCliff's site, you can find a video that my son and I made, showing how to make a rather inexpensive valve spring compressor.
You will need that to check/replace your seals.

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Thanks Steve, I've already viewed the video a couple of times. Acquired the 6" clamp on sale even. I'm just waiting on the valve seals from Z1 and then I hope I'll be all set.

 

[razooki]

OK, just got the new valve seals from Z1. I am looking for some advice/tips/home made tools that I would need to replace them. I understand that I have to use the spring compressor to remove the valves and then the springs will come out but then do I need to remove anything else to get to the seals? What have people used to seat them back in?

Thanks,

Raz

 

[Steve]

OK, you said you have viewed the video, just play it backwards.

Compress the spring, remove the two half-moon keepers, release the spring (hopefully in a controlled manner).
Remove the top spring keeper and both springs.
Reach down and pull on the valve seals. Ideally, you will want some pliers with bent tips, like spark plug pullers or strain relief pliers. The idea is to get under the seal and pull UP. Might help to grab and twist just a bit to make sure it's not stuck, then pull.

While you have things apart, check the valve guide clearance before putting things back together. To put the new seals in, just push them down with your thumb, you will feel them snap into place. Put a few drops of oil on the inside, put the valve in place, then the springs and other hardware. Repeat as necessary.

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[razooki]

Steve, thank you again. As always, you provide straight forward and concise answers. So here's one more question. The manual recommends using moly paste for the cams and the valve shafts. Is that really necessary?

 

[Big T]

Not moly paste, as such

Some assembly lube would be nice - I think you can get it in those little squeeze packs at the front counter of Autozone or your auto parts store. If not, the small but expensive squeeze bottle will last a lifetime.

Oiling will also work, just not as well

 

[Spyderman]

the motor has been run so you don't need to use paste
a nice coating of clean motor oil will do just fine

 

[doctorgonzo]

Here you go... it was an Athena. Parts n More do them. Price is a little higher than I remember, maybe the $45 was on Ebay or different supplier.

https://www.partsnmore.com/motorcycle-gasket_sets.php?make=suzuki&category=gasket_set

Dan

That's the kit I used. I have heard it trashed a bit by some members, but so far (granted only 30 miles) so good.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Not moly paste, as such

Some assembly lube would be nice - I think you can get it in those little squeeze packs at the front counter of Autozone or your auto parts store. If not, the small but expensive squeeze bottle will last a lifetime.

Oiling will also work, just not as well

Yeah, Lucas makes some (assembly lube) that's available at your local autozone, pep boys, etc...