c5 ignition

[leedutcher]

Talk to the owner Paul Crowe and will be getting one for my bike. Using an optic eye vs magnet. Check out the
Website http://www.c5ignitions.com/

 

[posplayr]

Talk to the owner Paul Crowe and will be getting one for my bike. Using an optic eye vs magnet. Check out the
Website http://www.c5ignitions.com/

Interesting, looks like they are going for a higher precision readout. I assume there is benefit to it.

What bike are you going to use it on, and do you feel like you need the no battery option?

The reason I ask is that I'm very seriously considering joining the fray and designing an Ignition myself.

It is too early to divulge, but it would not just be solid sate but also computerized (i.e. adaptive). The main question I'm working on is how many sensors and what the relative benefit is in performance. Based on my reading last night adaptive spark timing is still a bit of a black art.

The optical sensor is probably more accurate (especially given the number of teeth they have), but the most common reason for NOT selecting an optical sensor is dirt can obstruct the light so you need a strategy for that. Perhaps there is not much dirt under a timing cover? Other than that no comment.

 

[leedutcher]

Can't take the no battery option. If I had a kick starter I might

Lol. But the main reason Is dependability. Haven't had much luck with points. In plan on having it both my bikes

My gs1000g and gs1100e

 

[Guest]

What is the cost of this ignition?

 

[Guest]

Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[tom203]

My 1996 Johnson outboard has optical ignition system -still works well, but do some reading as it's not foolproof. It can misfire if sensor gets hit by strong sunlight (motor hood off)

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=a9ocU9LgD6js0wGJj4DoBw&ved=0CGUQ9QEwAw

 

[posplayr]

Can't take the no battery option. If I had a kick starter I might

Lol. But the main reason Is dependability. Haven't had much luck with points. In plan on having it both my bikes

My gs1000g and gs1100e

If you can wait, I will be announcing a computerized ignition module like none other in about 2-3 months. :-\\\

I have been taking data, doing research and designing the PCB for about a month now. I should have working prototypes within 2-3 months (my GS1100ED will be my test bed and I expect to be able to show back to back dyno results).

This ignition will have a USB interface with engine performance and data logging capabilities. It will be approximately 2"x3"x1" and will use what ever pickup you already have (including points), but will be far more accurate than anything in existence and never need calibration again after the 1 time initial install.

It can be static timed, but I would suggest using a timing light so that the accuracy of your legacy pickup can't be a factor.


To be even more competitive, I will try and undercut the price of other offerings which seem to come in at just under $400.

 

[Guest]

If you can wait, I will be announcing a computerized ignition module like none other in about 2-3 months. :-\\\

I have been taking data, doing research and designing the PCB for about a month now. I should have working prototypes within 2-3 months (my GS1100ED will be my test bed and I expect to be able to show back to back dyno results).

This ignition will have a USB interface with engine performance and data logging capabilities. It will be approximately 2"x3"x1" and will use what ever pickup you already have (including points), but will be far more accurate than anything in existence and never need calibration again after the 1 time initial install.

It can be static timed, but I would suggest using a timing light so that the accuracy of your legacy pickup can't be a factor.


To be even more competitive, I will try and undercut the price of other offerings which seem to come in at just under $400.

.

I will be very interested in your ign. For my 85 GS1150 and a 89 GSXR 1340cc motor I am building. Will it be programmable so I can make my own timing map like the newer Dana 2000 is.
I set my ing. timing with a degree wheel.


.

 

[posplayr]

.

I will be very interested in your ign. For my 85 GS1150 and a 89 GSXR 1340cc motor I am building. Will it be programmable so I can make my own timing map like the newer Dana 2000 is.
I set my ing. timing with a degree wheel.


.

It is still preliminary, but it could be any of the above. What I'm working on is something where you would set the upper and lower bounds of timing and let it optimize withing those bounds. This would be something that the unit should be able to do driving around and or on a dyno. It can only optimize what it encounters. So you should be able to just ride it.

If you know your curve you just put it in , but then that defeats the optimization. It will also be to a certain extent a diagnostic performance tool, the accuracy of which still remains to be seen.

If this is a race application, it probably wont optimize itself in just one 10 sec run however.

The best thing is to get it set using a timing light, then any variations in the pickup are accounted for and you are done. Yes a degree wheel will measure TDC for a static time, however to be sure nothing is left to chance a timing light at low RPM will confirm where IGN TDC really is. Remember the pickup you have is only used for roughing in the timing.

Should work on any 2 or 4 cylinder dual coil motorcycle. At this point I don't know if newer OEM ignition controls do what this intends to do, so there may or may not be benefits for modern EFI bikes.

From what I'm reading they don't and there would be benefit, but getting into working around all the OEM controls (like power commander) is not something I'm looking to do at the moment. I will probably do a stand alone, but combined EI/EFI system first.

 

[Killer2600]

The CDI is nice if you need it but otherwise this is fools gold. Optical is more precise and worthwhile if you need precision 360 degree crank location but it's less reliable in the long-term than magnetic - any and everything can foul up optical dirt, dust, oil, bad bearing.

For a 30+ year old bike I am a firm believer of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." There's really no good reason to upgrade a 30+ year old bike to modern standards with solid-state power distribution w/ fault detection/protection, CDI optical electronic ignition whether programmable or self-tuning, Programmable/self-tuning EFI, modern safety-interlock systems, radial master cylinders, radial calipers, floating discs, belt drive, remote reservoir mono shock, Inverted cartridge forks, clip-ons, rear-sets, magnesium wheels, twin/triple-compound tires, slim/low-profile LED lighting, HID headlight, LED brake light with integrated turn signals, fender eliminator, tank grips, solo seat/cowl, digital gauge cluster, trip computer, adjustable air suspension, AM/FM/WB/CB/Satellite Radio with CD changer and intercom system, 3-piece hard case luggage system, back rest, power outlets, heated grips, adjustable power windscreen, air horn, reverse, back-up camera/sensor, electronic adaptive cruise control, and last but not least water cooling. I'm sure I missed others but you get the point - If you want modern crap, buy a modern bike, it's cheaper and more effective than buying an old bike and trying to make it a modern bike.

Posplayr: All the ideas you listed here have already been done but if you wish to reinvent the wheel for a 30+ year old bike it's your time and dime so as you wish. Personally for someone who isn't seriously modding their air-cooled 30 year old bike to put down some serious power numbers and low 1/4-mile times there's really no benefit to an aftermarket ignition with programmable timing map or even self-tuning. A water-cooled bike would have a better case for this but still at 30-years old? Got family or friends trying to get sub-10 second 1/4-mile times with their model T?

 

[posplayr]

The CDI is nice if you need it but otherwise this is fools gold. Optical is more precise and worthwhile if you need precision 360 degree crank location but it's less reliable in the long-term than magnetic - any and everything can foul up optical dirt, dust, oil, bad bearing.

For a 30+ year old bike I am a firm believer of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." There's really no good reason to upgrade a 30+ year old bike to modern standards with solid-state power distribution w/ fault detection/protection, CDI optical electronic ignition whether programmable or self-tuning, Programmable/self-tuning EFI, modern safety-interlock systems, radial master cylinders, radial calipers, floating discs, belt drive, remote reservoir mono shock, Inverted cartridge forks, clip-ons, rear-sets, magnesium wheels, twin/triple-compound tires, slim/low-profile LED lighting, HID headlight, LED brake light with integrated turn signals, fender eliminator, tank grips, solo seat/cowl, digital gauge cluster, trip computer, adjustable air suspension, AM/FM/WB/CB/Satellite Radio with CD changer and intercom system, 3-piece hard case luggage system, back rest, power outlets, heated grips, adjustable power windscreen, air horn, reverse, back-up camera/sensor, electronic adaptive cruise control, and last but not least water cooling. I'm sure I missed others but you get the point - If you want modern crap, buy a modern bike, it's cheaper and more effective than buying an old bike and trying to make it a modern bike.

Killer,
You comments above speak for themselves and don't bear repeating or arguing with.

Posplayr: All the ideas you listed here have already been done but if you wish to reinvent the wheel for a 30+ year old bike it's your time and dime so as you wish. Personally for someone who isn't seriously modding their air-cooled 30 year old bike to put down some serious power numbers and low 1/4-mile times there's really no benefit to an aftermarket ignition with programmable timing map or even self-tuning. A water-cooled bike would have a better case for this but still at 30-years old? Got family or friends trying to get sub-10 second 1/4-mile times with their model T?

Actually, reinvention, redesign, and reformulation of technology for improved performance, usability, cost and reliability ARE what I'm an expert at, so please excuse me if I ply my trade. Whether this is for a hobby or business, I enjoy doing this as I am very good at it. I find it very rewarding to go into old established fields and come up with novel solutions to old problems. This is not my first rodeo and Motorcycle electronics is just another discipline that I'm in the process of mastering. The SSPB is just the start for much more to come.

I do this by having the ability to absorb large amounts of information, mentally sift through it and develop approaches and solutions for improvement. For some 30 years, I have largely plyed that trade in DoD defense and commercial military markets. But despite the largely improbable successes I have had, long term economic benefit has been sporadic due to the hugely complex, political and expensive military contracting.

Contrary to your opinion, I do think older bikes have various problems, that newer bikes do not have. To read your comments above, you would think that there are no charging problems, there are no electrical problems, there are no jetting problems, there are no safety problems, there are no maintenance problems, (I could keep going on but you should get the point).

Also contrary to your opinion, I also think that many people think that their old bikes have problems and they are looking for solutions. All you need to do is look at the Tower of Babel of motorcycles electronics upgrades that are being offered on the market as well as the flood of Chinese electronic products.

I would not bother to argue, you comments, but I will take the opportunity to elaborate on my motivations and objectives. I strongly believe that there is opportunity for improvement and there is a strong underlying demand for such solutions.

Posplayr

 

[eil]

I wrote a long rebuttal to Killer2600's screed, but in the end I think this says it better: In this world, there are people who do and people who complain. I think it's obvious who is who without further elaboration.

The GSes are great vintage machines but to put it very politely, their electrical systems don't age as well as the rest of the bike. Thanks posplayr for sharing your research and advice.

 

[posplayr]

I wrote a long rebuttal to Killer2600's screed, but in the end I think this says it better: In this world, there are people who do and people who complain. I think it's obvious who is who without further elaboration.

The GSes are great vintage machines but to put it very politely, their electrical systems don't age as well as the rest of the bike. Thanks posplayr for sharing your research and advice.

I will add one more note, while Killer's perspective may carry "some" weight, it's logical conclusion is that everybody should ride a Hyabusa.

Well that is clearly not the case. People (guys and girls) want to enjoy older bikes as much as newer bikes for what ever the reasons maybe. So modifying those bikes is a way to enjoy the things you like the most about them and minimize or eliminate the issues and problems which most people don't like about them.

And your welcome.

 

[posplayr]

I will add one more note, while Killer's perspective may carry "some" weight, it's logical conclusion is that everybody should ride a Hyabusa.

Well that is clearly not the case. People (guys and girls) want to enjoy older bikes as much as newer bikes for what ever the reasons maybe. So modifying those bikes is a way to enjoy the things you like the most about them and minimize or eliminate the issues and problems which most people don't like about them.

Clearly reinforces my point

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2015-yamaha-sr400-first-look

After strong US dealer response, Yamaha has announced it will import the retro SR400 as a 2015 model. The new bike harkens back to Yamaha's own SR500, a single-cylinder model first offered in 1978, but incorporates modern features such as fuel injection.

 

[Guest]

A Hyabusa might be nice if it had the riding position I like, but it doesn't. Killer2600's opinion is just that, brings to mind the old saw about opinions and anatomical parts. He obviously doesn't get it so there is no real discussion here unless you like talking to walls. Jim, keep up the good work for those of us who do get it and value reliability above purist restoration. Personally I would rather ride an old bike that is still above my skill set that has enough soul to tell me when I'm pushing too hard. Having a 36 year old bike that is as, or more reliable than a Hyabusa that fits my riding style is the reason for me.

 

[Killer2600]

Contrary to your opinion, I do think older bikes have various problems, that newer bikes do not have. To read your comments above, you would think that there are no charging problems, there are no electrical problems, there are no jetting problems, there are no safety problems, there are no maintenance problems, (I could keep going on but you should get the point).

Also contrary to your opinion, I also think that many people think that their old bikes have problems and they are looking for solutions. All you need to do is look at the Tower of Babel of motorcycles electronics upgrades that are being offered on the market as well as the flood of Chinese electronic products.

Posplayr

Your right there are known problems on old bikes but there are also no new old bikes and no new unknown problems with these old bikes. With that, someone somewhere has come up with or found a solution to most likely every problem you think needs a fix and some you haven't. If this is your passion and hobby then so be it but if this is a business dream you should target a wider, newer audience rather than a niche and declining market. I'm sure someone could sell electric starters for model T era hand crank cars but how many of those cars are there now and how many will there be next year?

I wrote a long rebuttal to Killer2600's screed, but in the end I think this says it better: In this world, there are people who do and people who complain. I think it's obvious who is who without further elaboration.

It's not a complaint, I'm not a customer, it's simply a word of advice to think about.

A Hyabusa might be nice if it had the riding position I like, but it doesn't. Having a 36 year old bike that is as, or more reliable than a Hyabusa that fits my riding style is the reason for me.

Actually, I thought nothing of the hayabusa, so odd how you mention it because it doesn't come with radio, air suspension, or other crap.

 

[posplayr]

Your right there are known problems on old bikes but there are also no new old bikes and no new unknown problems with these old bikes. With that, someone somewhere has come up with or found a solution to most likely every problem you think needs a fix and some you haven't. If this is your passion and hobby then so be it but if this is a business dream you should target a wider, newer audience rather than a niche and declining market. I'm sure someone could sell electric starters for model T era hand crank cars but how many of those cars are there now and how many will there be next year?
.

You obviously feel compelled to reiterate a position that your see no value in adding or changing anything on a 30 year old bikes as in your view it has "all been done before". To take this literally would mean we should all suffer with old brakes, and old shocks, and old horns, and old lights, and burning stators because as you say "it has all been done before". The new bikes have fixed all this, even though we may not have new bike.

The conclusion that there is no merit in doing something because someone else already did it, doesn't make any sense except that presumably there is just no interest "in your mind" of improving something that is available in a new bike. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is no interest in other people's minds, but with your reiteration I gather that you just don't see that.

Apparently the other part of your message is that there is no way to make a business out of selling motorcycle parts for old motorcycles and you are warning and or apprising me of this. Well OK thank you for the words of advice. The very limited market for GS Suzuki's has not eluded me. I did not just fall off of the turnip truck.

 

[Killer2600]

You obviously feel compelled to reiterate a position that your see no value in adding or changing anything on a 30 year old bikes as in your view it has "all been done before". To take this literally would mean we should all suffer with old brakes, and old shocks, and old horns, and old lights, and burning stators because as you say "it has all been done before". The new bikes have fixed all this, even though we may not have new bike.

The conclusion that there is no merit in doing something because someone else already did it, doesn't make any sense except that presumably there is just no interest "in your mind" of improving something that is available in a new bike. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is no interest in other people's minds, but with your reiteration I gather that you just don't see that.

Not actually, there is a place for customizing and upgrading a bike even at 30+ years old but there's a limit to what you should expect from that and what you should do. Even if you change every single piece to a modern bike you won't have an alloy frame found on new bikes. So customize yes great, try to have a modern bike without buying a modern bike "why'd you buy a old bike if all you want to do is change all of it."

As for having new modern tech parts that will replace old worn parts that collectors that ride their bikes will no doubt need, yes they are needed and valued but my main issue is along the lines of the old points and electronic ignition from the factory sucks and it'd be great to have a modern replacement that's affordable. Ok, it's great that dyna has been making an electronic ignition that can be fitted on our old 30+ year old bike for years now. With that availability of something that arguably will only get changed once in 50 years of ownership does anyone else need to make a dyna S like ignition replacement for a 30 year old bike or are such just being stubborn.

Essentially, would you like accessories for your pet rock? I'm extremely late to the game but I'm going to invest time and money in this as if there isn't already any kind of availability of "stuff" to go with people pet rocks. I think people will want this stuff so I gotta help out all these pet rock owners that don't have modern replacements and accessories for their rock.

 

[posplayr]

Not actually, there is a place for customizing and upgrading a bike even at 30+ years old but there's a limit to what you should expect from that and what you should do. Even if you change every single piece to a modern bike you won't have an alloy frame found on new bikes. So customize yes great, try to have a modern bike without buying a modern bike "why'd you buy a old bike if all you want to do is change all of it."

As for having new modern tech parts that will replace old worn parts that collectors that ride their bikes will no doubt need, yes they are needed and valued but my main issue is along the lines of the old points and electronic ignition from the factory sucks and it'd be great to have a modern replacement that's affordable. Ok, it's great that dyna has been making an electronic ignition that can be fitted on our old 30+ year old bike for years now. With that availability of something that arguably will only get changed once in 50 years of ownership does anyone else need to make a dyna S like ignition replacement for a 30 year old bike or are such just being stubborn.

Essentially, would you like accessories for your pet rock? I'm extremely late to the game but I'm going to invest time and money in this as if there isn't already any kind of availability of "stuff" to go with people pet rocks. I think people will want this stuff so I gotta help out all these pet rock owners that don't have modern replacements and accessories for their rock.

Killer, you seem to be beating a dead horse. I certainly understand your position however much I disagree. Just because you have no interest does not mean that nobody else does.

I'm also sensing a bit or ridicule in your tone, best you keep that to yourself lest you be made to look the idiot.

 

[Guest]

Killer, why don't you look up Agemax, take a look at his bike and tell him your opinion of the world according to Killer 2600.