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Carb experimentation..comments?

earlfor

Forum Guru
Past Site Supporter
TGSR Superstar
Charter Member
OK all, I;ll try to keep this as short as I can. :-) (79 GS750EN)
Been experimenting with carb settings. It seems almost everyone
(self included) has at times had setups that made the bike hard to start, or required very long warm up times before the engine would accept throttle. There have been complaints of flat spots in the transition from idle to higher throttle settings. Other problems have been poor gas milage, fouled plugs, lean plugs, popping in the exhaust, preignition, overheating and the engine sounding like Buuuuuu when throttle is quickly turned in midrange. None of the books I have give a base setting for the pilot screw, and none of my books give a vacum value for the rpm they say the carbs should be balanced at.
When I rebuilt my carbs, the paint/seal on the pilot screw was unbroken. The pilot screws were set at 7/8th's of a turn out.
I have used many different combinations of settings and vacum that resulted in a smooth running engine, but I have not found settings that result in everything being perfect at the same time.
The objective is easy starting with minimal need of choke, minimal warm up time before the engine will accept throttle, smooth transitions throughout the throttle range, good power output throughout, clean burning plugs, reasonable gas milage, and a cool running engine. The jetting, mufflers/pipes and airbox are stock. Presently, I am using 1 turn out on the pilot screw, 1 3/8 turn on the air screw and am drawing 23 inches of vacum at 2000 rpm. with these settings, starting is instant with half choke/enrichener, warm up is about two minutes, throttle transition is very good, power is excellent throughout the throttle range with no flat spots. Bad news is plugs burn very dark (I know ...too rich) and gas milage is down from 50 to 46 mpg.
It would be helpful to know what everyone else is using for mixture and vacum settings and what characteristics those sett
ings result in. thanks.... :-)

Earl
 
Earl since your on a 750 may I assume that your carbs are Kuni's BS 32 SS?
 
Jay, all 750's up to and including 1979 have Mikuni VM26SS carbs
(thats what mine are) From 1980 and afterwards the carbs were BS32SS (CV'S).

Earl


Jay B said:
Earl since your on a 750 may I assume that your carbs are Kuni's BS 32 SS?
 
Just an add on here Jay. while we're at it, why dont we discuss the BS 32's also? There are probably more people with those than with mine since 32's are also used on 850's. If everyone would state what carb they have at the top of their reply, confusion should be kept to a minimum. :-) :-)

Earl

Jay B said:
Earl since your on a 750 may I assume that your carbs are Kuni's BS 32 SS?
 
All these symptoms combined sure seem to point to an intake leak.

Read this tirade of mine:

http://home.att.net/~robert.barr/intake.html

If the intake tube (boot) O-rings haven't been changed in a few years, you're setting yourself up for some serious hair-pulling, since these introduce about a zillion variables into the mix. It's like trying to hit a moving target if there's an intake leak.
 
Earl:

If you are aiming at constant peak performance, the best you can do is going to be a compromise, unless you re-set the carbs with every weather change.

I just got a reminder of that yesterday when I opened it up on an on-ramp. The bike fairly flew as compared to what it had been doing. Same brand of gas, same carb settings, but air temperature was down more than 20 degrees.
 
Tuning Mikuni Carb VM & TM URL

Tuning Mikuni Carb VM & TM URL

I own a 1978 GS750E with some tempermental idle and off-idle transition troubles. I'm in the process to try and correct. Possibly this URL I located on Tuning Mikuni Carb VM & TM might be of use to the list.
http://www.ural.com/uralmanual/ch_5mikuni.htm
 
Well Ron, the temps, humidity and elevation in south FL are pretty much the same all the time. :-) :-) Yeah, I want the best performance I can get while still retaining stock components. I'm looking for an overall smooth performance envelope, and trying to avoid a set up that goes like H...., but will only do so in a narrow range, or makes the engine fussy.

Earl

argonsagas said:
Earl:

If you are aiming at constant peak performance, the best you can do is going to be a compromise, unless you re-set the carbs with every weather change.

I just got a reminder of that yesterday when I opened it up on an on-ramp. The bike fairly flew as compared to what it had been doing. Same brand of gas, same carb settings, but air temperature was down more than 20 degrees.
 
carb adjustment

carb adjustment

Earl

Do you have identical adjustments for all carbs? I thought the inside cylinders would run hotter and require different (richer?) settings from the outside cylinders. It would be interesting to hear what you found.

Patrick
 
Re: carb adjustment

Re: carb adjustment

I am running all four cylinders with the same pilot, air screw, and vacum settings. You are correct if the mixtures are in the normal to lean range, but my settings are on the rich side, so a slight leaning on 2 and 3 is not noticable on the plug reading. If it was, I too would richen 2 and 3. With the carbs set to normal lean mixtures, my gas milage is 50=51 mpg.
Running the bike today for 150 miles, my gas milage is down to 46 mpg, but there is a big time increase in power. :-) :-) Both of those mpg's are for 65-70 mph cruising speeds.

Earl


patrikobrien said:
Earl

Do you have identical adjustments for all carbs? I thought the inside cylinders would run hotter and require different (richer?) settings from the outside cylinders. It would be interesting to hear what you found.

Patrick
 
Hmmmmm....more convesion problems....filled up today....297km....17 litres.....spin tires while getting bike in garage due to VERY heavy rain (forecast said NO RAIN FOR FIVE DAYS : :x ) translate into Quebecois, as required by law, then into real French, then into English...looks like about 38 MPG/US gallon at average speed of....

.back to calculation....
200 / distance / include city/ speedometer error/ temperature / SOB in hot MB....oops! ...variables lost...gotta stop....

Now...let's see: compare above net loss with .....65 - 70mph /US...about 105/110kph....divide by 2 cups of whole wheat flour, with half UK pint of stale beer, dash of yeast...change filter at 5000km.....

NAAAAAA . Can't do it. Whole thing is ill-bread. Numbers do not match with reality of REAL motorcycle driver.

Earl...stop driving so bloody slow!!!
 
Slow" slow, slow....:-) I was getting numbers for milage comparisons, so pretty much needed to keep a steady speed. Besides, patrol cars are rather plentiful. :-) I did come up on one pick up truck pulling a four stall horse trailer that was going about 50 mph. Once I had a clear lane to pass in, just for fun, I bumped down to 4th, twisted the throttle and when I went by his front bumper, the speedo was past 90. I would guess this took all of two seconds. :-)

Earl

[quote="argonsagas"
Earl...stop driving so bloody slow!!![/quote]
 
carburetor adjustment

carburetor adjustment

Earl

Thanks for the clarification. As I am still learning a lot here every day, I wanted to check if my understanding of what you were doing was right.

I have averaged about 40 mpg on my 1100E at 60 mph (I should have given you this in litres and imperial gallons and kilometers). I think I saw close to 50 mpg when I bought it and had to keep the speed down initially.

Of course, I didn't really buy the bike for fuel efficiency but it is nice to run the bike as well as it can run.


Patrick
 
I used a colortune on my 78 GS1000 to set up the idle and mid circuits. It has been some years since I had the original 26 mikunis on (I have had KZ900 28mm jobs on for years..far easier to tune as they don't have the air screw).

from memory, the air screw makes the little buggers hard to tune. The combinations of air and pilot are huge. It may not help, but I found changing the pilot jet (size bigger) enabled the pilot srew and air screw combination to be tuned far more flexibly to get idle, low and mid tuning right. This only showed up when I tried all combinations known to man to try and get consistent transition form idle to slide cutout.

The bike runs fine in normal wetaher, a little while to warm up in freezing weather, but having the power come on softer with a big bore kit, cams and ported head is ok by me when the tyres are cold!
 
Saaz
I know exactly what you mean about it being difficult to get smooth transitions. :-) Did you do any experimentation with balancing the carbs at different vacum levels. By that I mean for example, instead of setting all carbs to draw 23 inches at 2000 rpm, set them to draw 30 inches at 2000rpm. I would be very interested in what you found if you have tried it.

Earl


saaz said:
from memory, the air screw makes the little buggers hard to tune. The combinations of air and pilot are huge. It may not help, but I found changing the pilot jet (size bigger) enabled the pilot srew and air screw combination to be tuned far more flexibly to get idle, low and mid tuning right. This only showed up when I tried all combinations known to man to try and get consistent transition form idle to slide cutout.
 
No, I just run the bike at the suggested revs then balance to match the carbs that are already equal
 
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