Charging Problem + Highbeam Indicator dead

[sam000lee]

Hi all,

I bought my GS450L about a month ago and have put about 1000 miles onto it. I ride it pretty much every day and have been having a blast. I ran into a little problem yesterday and am going to tell you everything leading up to it that may or not be related.

Three days ago:
The headlight was pointing straight ahead on low and up into the trees on high, so I moved it down to a normal angle.

Two days ago:
Was out at night with the high beam (and therefore the blue high beam indicator light on the dash) on and noticed that the indicator light was flickering on and off while the high beam remained steadily ON. Eventually the indicator went out completely and would periodically flicker on for a moment.
I thought maybe there was a loose wire somewhere and didn't think anything of it.

Yesterday:
Rode to the store no problems. When I started it up on the way back I noticed that the starter wasn't as strong as normal but it started up fine and I got home.
I figured that maybe I hadn't rode at high enough RPM's for long enough and maybe the battery wasn't fully charged.
Later that day I rode it for ~20 miles on the highway thinking that the battery would charge. When I went to start it up again it was totally dead. Luckily I got my friend to help me bump start it (which was far easier than I thought it would be!) and I got home fine.
Again I rode it about 40 minutes on my way home and when I got home the battery still didn't have enough juice to start her up. The whole ride home I had the high beam on and every once in a while the high beam indicator light would flicker on for a second and then go out.
When I got home I noticed that the blinkers did not blink.

Threw the battery on the charger overnight.

Today: With a full battery, the bike started up fine, the blinkers work again but still no high beam indicator.

Initially I thought maybe it was the charging system or a bad battery but when I thought about the bad indicator light I was thinking could it be just a blown fuse or loose wire from adjusting the headlight?

Thanks!

 

[tom203]

"I bought my GS450L about a month ago and have put about 1000 miles onto it. I ride it pretty much every day and have been having a blast. I ran into a little problem yesterday......"

You need to get get familar with the issues these bikes have BEFORE they find you. In this case, your charging system needs checking, cuz it seems to be failing- flickering, weak battery,etc.

Do a quickee test

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/electrical_odd-n-ends.html#A20

 

[sam000lee]

Could I have just crimped a wire somewhere when I moved my headlight? The high beam itself does not flicker on/off, only the indicator light. Could a charging issue be due to just one faulty wire?

 

[tkent02]

More likely it's due to 32 years of neglect.

 

[posplayr]

Could I have just crimped a wire somewhere when I moved my headlight? The high beam itself does not flicker on/off, only the indicator light. Could a charging issue be due to just one faulty wire?

Shocking isn't it

 

[sam000lee]

So I want to take my bike over to my buddies moped shop to try to figure this out and do some other adjustments and such. Its about 20 miles away and I'm wondering if theres any reason I shouldn't ride over. I charged the battery and the bike starts up fine.

If the battery dies while riding, the engine should keep providing spark and headlight power right?

 

[posplayr]

So I want to take my bike over to my buddies moped shop to try to figure this out and do some other adjustments and such. Its about 20 miles away and I'm wondering if theres any reason I shouldn't ride over. I charged the battery and the bike starts up fine.

If the battery dies while riding, the engine should keep providing spark and headlight power right?

I guess you can't get or don't have a volt meter to do a "Quick Test",? Depending on what is wrong it could quit at any time while ridding.

 

[tom203]

So I want to take my bike over to my buddies moped shop to try to figure this out and do some other adjustments and such. Its about 20 miles away and I'm wondering if theres any reason I shouldn't ride over. I charged the battery and the bike starts up fine.

If the battery dies while riding, the engine should keep providing spark and headlight power right?

Boston traffic, 90 degrees, perfect breakdown weather. Don't count on "should keep providing spark stuff"... fully charged battery should give you 45 minutes of running MAYBE

 

[posplayr]

Boston traffic, 90 degrees, perfect breakdown weather. Don't count on "should keep providing spark stuff"... fully charged battery should give you 45 minutes of running MAYBE

what about if there is a short in the R/R?


We can on guess for the OP's want of a voltmeter.

 

[Gorminrider]

the contacts of those little indicator bulbs are often funky. Take it out and clean it and the socket it plugs into....do the rest of the indicator bulbs too. work back wards from there, checking connections for dirt and other evils.

I bet the charging is a separate issue entirely and isn't working.

You are hurting your battery by running it down over and over and the more you do this, the less distance you will go with it. This kills em. They aren't designed for it.

If you are sure you will find real help across town, take a spare battery.
if not,IMHO, you're better off reading all of the help that posplayr,basscliff and so many others have put together to help you fix it.

 

[Steve]

If the battery dies while riding, the engine should keep providing spark and headlight power right?

Yes, under normal circumstances, that would happen.

BUT ... what we are trying to tell you is that the "engine" (actually the stator and R/R) are NOT providing any current, and that is why your battery is dying in the first place.

Posplayr has responded in this thread. Look in any one of his posts, at his signature, there is a "Quick Test" that you can do to determine the overall health of your charging system. In just a few minutes, you will know how it stands.

By the way, the flickering indicator bulb was probably failing, due to over-voltage because the R/R (Rectifier/Regulator) was failing. The headlight can usually withstand a bit more over-voltage than the smaller lights, so you will not see much change in it.

When you are done diagnosing your system, don't forget to check the electrolyte level in the battery. Overcharging the battery tends to 'boil' off the water. Add only DISTILLED water to the battery to bring it back up to proper level.

.

 

[sam000lee]

Okay great thanks guys, I'm going to avoid riding it over and see what I can figure out on my next free day. I'll post what I find!

 

[tom203]

what about if there is a short in the R/R?

Well, I was trying to discourage him !

 

[sam000lee]

Okay, well today I had a success in getting my 1974 cb125 up and running after making some carb intake gaskets and was feeling confident enough to try to get to the bottom of the charging issue in my GS450.

I put my fully charged battery in, and as I was sliding it into the box the wiring started smoking, alot, there were a fair amount of sparks and now there's a lot of melted wires.
I had noticed that the wire going from the positive end of the battery to the starter and into the harness was a little frayed and am thinking it touched the frame and caused a short circuit.
Either way, I'll be ordering a new (old) harness off of ebay.
On the bright side, I'm thinking maybe this could potentially also fix the original charging issue if it was being caused by a faulty connection somewhere. Am I grasping for straws with that thought?

I'll update when I swap out the harness or find other things that melted and are going to cause me grief.

 

[tom203]

"Am I grasping for straws with that thought?"

big grasp! when you get your replacement harness installed, test everything VERY carefully- don't plan on getting lucky!

 

[posplayr]

"Am I grasping for straws with that thought?"

big grasp! when you get your replacement harness installed, test everything VERY carefully- don't plan on getting lucky!

I have this strange feeling he connected the battery posts while the battery was out and then tried to wrestle it into place.

 

[sam000lee]

Okay, I have my new wiring harness in. Cleaned all my grounds and checked connections and everything seems to be okay there. Battery still doesn't charge - the potential across the battery doesn't change at all with higher revs.

So I'm thinking I might as well replace both the stator and the R/R while I'm at it and now am faced with which ones to buy. I was looking at this thread: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=212088

and am left with the question of is there any reason why a cheaper stator is a bad idea? Theres a $60 one from Caltric that is pretty appealing. Would it fail faster or perform worse?

One more thing is that in the manual it seems as if you can just take of the left side cover and unscrew/replace the old one and then reconnect wires. Is it really as simple as that? I've never opened the case for anything and it is a little intimidating to do for the first time.

 

[Gorminrider]

"...the manual it seems as if you can just take of the left side cover and unscrew/replace the old one and then reconnect wires. Is it really as simple as that?"
Yes, but take the side cover over the chain sprocket off first to access the stator's side-cover's screws... Pretty easy, but you'll probably need to use an impact driver to get the stator screws loose, so be gentle as you hammer down against the side cover on your bench. You will need a new gasket for the sidecover too.

 

[bwanna]

My advice is to test each component first to verify what the problem is.

1. First test the stator wires. Using the manual is fine, but there are also some great processes identified by members here. Basically, you're looking for an equal output (>67 volts) among the 3 wires from the stator at 5k rpm.
- Also check to see that these 3 wires do not show continuity with the ground... meaning they are to some degree touching the ground.

2. Second check the R/R for output and continuity. This is slightly different in that the internal diodes should be tested.

My advice. IF you need to replace anything, buy good products. You may want to consider buy the newer non-shunting type of R/R with the switching MOSFET type... if you replace that. The stator's and R/R (shunt type) have a bad history. The newer R/R will last probably the life of the bike if treated properly.

I hope this helps.

Okay, I have my new wiring harness in. Cleaned all my grounds and checked connections and everything seems to be okay there. Battery still doesn't charge - the potential across the battery doesn't change at all with higher revs.

So I'm thinking I might as well replace both the stator and the R/R while I'm at it and now am faced with which ones to buy. I was looking at this thread: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=212088

and am left with the question of is there any reason why a cheaper stator is a bad idea? Theres a $60 one from Caltric that is pretty appealing. Would it fail faster or perform worse?

One more thing is that in the manual it seems as if you can just take of the left side cover and unscrew/replace the old one and then reconnect wires. Is it really as simple as that? I've never opened the case for anything and it is a little intimidating to do for the first time.

 

[posplayr]

My advice is to test each component first to verify what the problem is.

1. First test the stator wires. Using the manual is fine, but there are also some great processes identified by members here. Basically, you're looking for an equal output (>67 volts) among the 3 wires from the stator at 5k rpm.
- Also check to see that these 3 wires do not show continuity with the ground... meaning they are to some degree touching the ground.

You also want to check AC voltage at 5K RPM between each leg and ground as a primary test.

2. Second check the R/R for output and continuity. This is slightly different in that the internal diodes should be tested.

With all of the variations in R/R's these days the success rate on getting this right is probably very low. The only tests I would even trust are the diode tests and the MOSFET shunt R/R doesn't even have them.

My advice. IF you need to replace anything, buy good products. You may want to consider buy the newer non-shunting type of R/R with the switching MOSFET type... if you replace that. The stator's and R/R (shunt type) have a bad history. The newer R/R will last probably the life of the bike if treated properly.

Not sure the OP will understand that statement. Typically MOSFET refers to SHUNT type (even though a series R/R might us a MOSFET). And you are the first to refer to a Series R/R as a non-shunt which can also lead to confusion.

I hope this helps.

responses above