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Charging System Gremlins

ddaniels

ddaniels

Forum Sage
This issue got started in the General Discussion section with me telling how I had to push start the bike yesterday. It kinda morphed into an electircal discussion and I don't know how to move the thread, so I'm reposting my last input here in hopes of getting more response. Here's my last post:

When checking the voltage at the battery with the bike running, at idle I'm getting about 12.6 volts. Kinda low. When I rev it up to 4000 rpm's, it actually drops down to about 12.36 volts. So, the charging system is suspect somewhere.

Ran the test for the stator as spelled out in the stator papers, as well as basscliff's tutorial and the stator passed all three tests. Whew!

I tried testing the R/R with confusing results, and I need some help here from the experts.

1. I tried the first test of leaving it hooked up to the bike, starting the bike and checking the voltage between the positive terminal of the battery (black multimete lead) and the red output of the R/R (red multimeter lead). The papers say that if it is less than 0.2 volts, then that connection is good. The only way I could put the multimeter lead to the red output, while leaving it connected to the bike was to cut off the connector, strip the wires and twist them back together, leaving them exposed. That's what I did. The readings were strange as the meter kept jumping around from .03 volts to .07 volts, up to .1 volts and back, just all over the place not staying on one reading. Doesn't sound right to me.

2. The next test says to check between the negative battery terminal (red multimeter lead)and the black/white wire coming from the R/R (black multimeter lead), but leaving it all connected to the bike. Well, that wire is connected right to the negative battery terminal, and of course when I put the red multimeter lead to the negative battery, and the black multimeter lead to the connector on the R/R (which is connected to that battery terminal anyway), the reading is zero volts. To be expected I think.

3. The next test for the R/R says to set your multimeter to the diode test position. I don't know what that is and don't see any setting on my meter that says "diode". I don't know how to proceed here.

Help!

The good news is that the stator tests out ok. :)
 
I the same results when trying to test my R&R. The R&R was under warranty so I sent it back and received a nice new one in it's place.
 
ddaniels said:
I believe you're probaby correct.

How am I supposed to wire up that FJR R/R? No wires coming from it.

There is currently an offer from another member for a duanage R/R...whatever that is.
Click to expand...

Dave I didn't look at the link but if Ed is referring you to a MOSFET type RR there are basically spade terminals on the side of the unit, you can either get all fancy and pick up a connector from Eastern Beaver or simply attach female spades to those posts. There are six posts, three for your stator, one power out, one ground, and supposedly a sense wire but after speaking to Steve and doing some testing of my own, I found no difference in output or regulation with or without the sense wire so I left it empty. I used a Honda unit, from a Rubicon or Foreman ATV I picked up for around $50 on eBay. Be aware however that MOST of these MOSFET units, while having roughly the same "footprint" and bolt spacing as a GS or Honda unit, will have much taller sink fins making mounting on certain models a little more difficult.
On my ex 1100ES it was pretty tricky as they were too tall to mount in the stock position, mounting under the batt box ala some of the other models wasn't an option because of interference from the swinger, so I had to grind a couple of the fins down with a dremel. I don't recal where on the 1000G it is located but I seem to think it's under the battery box so you should be ok there.

Also, Jim (posplyr) had done some studies that seemed to point to the mosfet type possibly dumping more heat to the stator, rather than the RR, thereby possibly shortening stator life. I however never had a problem. What's more, my stator was the factory installed unit, and afaik still has no problems now that Greg has her. Granted I kept a wary eye on making sure all my connections were new and clean and greased, and she charged at a steady 14.3 volts from 2500 rpm on up.

If you opt for the more expensive but near bullet proof series type, and would like some hands on help, contact Dogma (dale) as he used a series type on his 1000G and is semi local.
 
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There is no sense wire on that FET unit. Plug in some spade terminals and seal in the cavity using silicone (but you need the kind that is for electrical, not the regular RTV which is acidic).

That price is really good for one of those units. It won't last long on ebay.

IMG_1320.jpg


IMG_1321.jpg
 
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ddaniels said:
Which would be better, that FET unit, or a duaneage unit? Not sure, but I think it is Honda.
Click to expand...

Duaneage doesn't sell them anymore, and his last batch was not from Honda, they were a similar unit made in China.

Oh, and the FET unit is superior to anything installed on a Honda, other than this very FET type, which Honda used on a few high end models.
 
Thanks Ed. Hmmm, pay $50 for the duaneage shipped (the offer from Koolade Kid) or $60 for this FET. Not sure yet.
 
Oh, and depending on how anal you are about keeping the harness stock, I would also suggest a couple of things (well covered in many threads but I'll reiterate here)
Eliminate the harness from the charging path by wiring your stator to the RR, and the RR hot lead directly to the batter with an in-line blade type fuse (25-30amp fuse is sufficient) and the ground directly to the Neg battery terminal.
Doing this will help to eliminate the redundant loop for the headlamp, as well as make keeping all your charging leads in check much easier, and easier to get to. If you feel you want to use the sense wire, I have had best success tapping into the orange switched power feed prior to the fuse block as it is just about the cleanest and most direct route. Any voltage drop there should be minimal assuming your harness isn't a bloody mess, but knowing you and that bike, I doubt it. :)
 
Nessism said:
There is no sense wire on that FET unit.
Click to expand...
True enough, but the model that TCK referenced, the one from the Honda ATV, does have a sense wire.

I have one of those R/Rs in my wife's bike, so I did some testing when I installed it. I started with the sense wire not connected to anything, just to see what the output looked like. It was absolutely great, and looked just like it should. I then connected the sense wire directly to the battery positive terminal and saw NO CHANGE from the previous results at any engine speed. It still increased a bit until about 2500 rpm, then dropped about a tenth of a volt and held steady. I then tried connecting the sense wire to the battery negative terminal, to see if it would drive the output up. Again, NO CHANGE from previous results. I have left the wire disconnected.

.
 
Nessism said:
Duaneage doesn't sell them anymore, and his last batch was not from Honda, they were a similar unit made in China.

Oh, and the FET unit is superior to anything installed on a Honda, other than this very FET type, which Honda used on a few high end models.
Click to expand...

Very nice Ed :) I suspected nothing less of you however ;)
The units I used did have a sense wire post, but as both steve and I found, it seemed to make no difference whether it was used or not.
 
ddaniels said:
Thanks Ed. Hmmm, pay $50 for the duaneage shipped (the offer from Koolade Kid) or $60 for this FET. Not sure yet.
Click to expand...
Not to shortchange Koolaid_Kid, but click HERE to see the ATV regulators currently on eBay.

Just pick one that has TWO groups of terminals, not just one. :o

.
 
TheCafeKid said:
Oh, and depending on how anal you are about keeping the harness stock, I would also suggest a couple of things (well covered in many threads but I'll reiterate here)
Eliminate the harness from the charging path by wiring your stator to the RR, and the RR hot lead directly to the batter with an in-line blade type fuse (25-30amp fuse is sufficient) and the ground directly to the Neg battery terminal.
Doing this will help to eliminate the redundant loop for the headlamp, as well as make keeping all your charging leads in check much easier, and easier to get to. If you feel you want to use the sense wire, I have had best success tapping into the orange switched power feed prior to the fuse block as it is just about the cleanest and most direct route. Any voltage drop there should be minimal assuming your harness isn't a bloody mess, but knowing you and that bike, I doubt it. :)
Click to expand...
Nah, I don't care about keeping the harness stock. I'd rather have it work the best. I've already removed the silly connection from one of the stator leads that goes into the harness, and then magically reappears going right to the R/R. I cut that connection and went straight to the R/R, but not until after I checked the wiring diagram to see where that went in the harness...which was nowhere. didn't look into the red output of the R/R though. Thanks for the tip. The ground was already at the battery terminal.

I hope whatever I get, it gets here before the 555 ride. :-s
 
TheCafeKid said:
Very nice Ed :) I suspected nothing less of you however ;)
The units I used did have a sense wire post, but as both steve and I found, it seemed to make no difference whether it was used or not.
Click to expand...

That's fine Josh, but your post was in response to how to hook up the unit I linked. The unit I linked does not have a sense wire.

So regarding those ATV units, those are cheaper so if they are real FET units, I'd get one of those instead.

Any of these Shindengen FET's are superior to the China made copy. If anyone is questioning, read this thread... http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=134690
 
Nessism said:
There is no sense wire on that FET unit. Plug in some spade terminals and seal in the cavity using silicone (but you need the kind that is for electrical, not the regular RTV which is acidic).

That price is really good for one of those units. It won't last long on ebay.

IMG_1320.jpg


IMG_1321.jpg
Click to expand...
It's hard to tell from these pics, but which lead does the red go to and which lead does the ground go to?
 
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Steve said:
Just out of curiosity, why didn't you get this one? :-k

It was half the price.
shrug2.gif


.
Click to expand...

Hey Steve, maybe you should be the new R/R supplier around here.:dancing: And you can call them "Honda" units, and not be fibbing.;)
 
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