Charging System - pulling out what little hair I have left!

[Guest]

My charging system was working well. New Electrosport stator, SH775 R/R, new Yuasa battery, SPG, etc. I had a leak in the stator cover so removed it to replace the gasket. Unfortunately I pinched the stator wires when reassembling the sprocket cover. I didn't realize this until I was in the middle of a 220km trip last Saturday and the bike died, but that's another story. I managed to make it to my destination and home again and that's when I discovered the pinched wires. I repaired the damage (soldered connections protected with shrink wrap) and reassembled. The repair is behind the sprocket cover so I'm not worried about the shrink wrap coming off. Bingo - back to 14.3 volts on the meter! That is until I took it for a test drive. 2 kilometres in and I was no longer charging. I have since gone over everything - all connections, fuse box, fuses, checked my stator wire repair, did the stator tests (all good) - to no avail. I even removed the Electrosport and installed the old original stator - same results.

I'm at a loss here. Before I pinched the wires the system was working well. And after I repaired the damaged wires it was working well again - for 2 kilometres. I'm quite frustrated and don't know what else I can check. Help!

 

[posplayr]

did you do the leg to ground tests at 5K RPM? What are the results?

 

[Guest]

did you do the leg to ground tests at 5K RPM? What are the results?

Leg to ground was around 1.6V at 5000rpm on all 3 legs. I’m getting 65V or more from each pair of legs at 5000rpm as well. Would the 1.6V to ground result in no charging at all?

 

[posplayr]

Leg to ground was around 1.6V at 5000rpm on all 3 legs. I’m getting 65V or more from each pair of legs at 5000rpm as well. Would the 1.6V to ground result in no charging at all?

As per this link, no positive result is an indication of a good stator. Only bad results indicate bad stators. That said the 65V does not look good and is actually below spec. It should be 80VAC at 5K RPM. If I recall you have swapped out the stator a few times. What are your Quick Test numbers saying (all 6 of them)?

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...esting&highlight=First+Theorem+stator+testing

 

[tom203]

I'd redo the pinched wire repair...making sure the three wires are seperate from each other and the ground. IIRC, my previous stator showed 10vac to ground, but still produced enough dc to keep things in mid 13's above idle.

 

[Guest]

I'd redo the pinched wire repair...making sure the three wires are seperate from each other and the ground. IIRC, my previous stator showed 10vac to ground, but still produced enough dc to keep things in mid 13's above idle.

This is tonight's job. Yesterday I was pi$$ed off enough that I had to put down the tools and walk away or there may have be more inadvertent damage done.

 

[Guest]

As per this link, no positive result is an indication of a good stator. Only bad results indicate bad stators. That said the 65V does not look good and is actually below spec. It should be 80VAC at 5K RPM. If I recall you have swapped out the stator a few times. What are your Quick Test numbers saying (all 6 of them)?

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...esting&highlight=First+Theorem+stator+testing

Those numbers are from the original GS stator that I swapped in, and yes, the leg to ground should be 0. I didn't record the stator test numbers or quick test numbers - I've now done them enough times to know what's good and what's bad.

I've got to think it's the pinched wire repair that is the cause of the problem because all was well before that. Either that or there's some kind of stator voodoo going on here.

 

[posplayr]

Those numbers are from the original GS stator that I swapped in, and yes, the leg to ground should be 0. I didn't record the stator test numbers or quick test numbers - I've now done them enough times to know what's good and what's bad.

I've got to think it's the pinched wire repair that is the cause of the problem because all was well before that. Either that or there's some kind of stator voodoo going on here.

If you don’t want to report electrical measurements you must know what you are doing. Good luck.

 

[Guest]

If you don’t want to report electrical measurements you must know what you are doing. Good luck.

Not trying to be cocky at all, and I do appreciate your help. I simply meant that with all the charging system work I've done over the past few months that I'm all too familiar with what are considered good results and bad results. I did the quick test after the pinched wire repair and all of the numbers were within spec so I didn't record them. I'll be working on this again tonight and probably tomorrow and will record and report the numbers.

 

[posplayr]

Not trying to be cocky at all, and I do appreciate your help. I simply meant that with all the charging system work I've done over the past few months that I'm all too familiar with what are considered good results and bad results. I did the quick test after the pinched wire repair and all of the numbers were within spec so I didn't record them. I'll be working on this again tonight and probably tomorrow and will record and report the numbers.

Here is a little advice that result from decades of successfully solving really complex technical problems; when you are confounded by your results, it is NOT the time to leave stones unturned.

 

[Brendan W]

I'm guilty of getting into that head spin where you have gone over ground so many times you start to make basic errors.
What I have learned is that there is a time to measure methodically and another to do the troubleshooting thing and the two are very different.
It pays to just switch off the thinker and let the measurer go to work.
Sometimes the best ideas for solving the problem come from looking at the numbers several hours later.

 

[Guest]

I'm guilty of getting into that head spin where you have gone over ground so many times you start to make basic errors.
What I have learned is that there is a time to measure methodically and another to do the troubleshooting thing and the two are very different.
It pays to just switch off the thinker and let the measurer go to work.
Sometimes the best ideas for solving the problem come from looking at the numbers several hours later.

Well said.

 

[posplayr]

I'm guilty of getting into that head spin where you have gone over ground so many times you start to make basic errors.
What I have learned is that there is a time to measure methodically and another to do the troubleshooting thing and the two are very different.
It pays to just switch off the thinker and let the measurer go to work.
Sometimes the best ideas for solving the problem come from looking at the numbers several hours later.

To distill your notion more formally:

Being confounded is the result of drawing a conclusion from incomplete information (i.e. making assumptions). It leads to paradoxical results because you have "filled-in" missing data with assumptions. This is where going into measurement mode would resolve the assumption with measurements. A frequent assumption is that your test is working properly. This can lead to errors that also need to be validated.

This may sound like you can't believe anything, but there are a set of dependencies (e.g. physics and causality) that have to be true, but the inputs to the dependencies have to be verified.

 

[Brendan W]

Second distillation.
Errant assumptions lie at the heart of every failure.............. or words to that effect.

 

[posplayr]

Second distillation.
Errant assumptions lie at the heart of every failure.............. or words to that effect.

In an ordered world that statement is an absolute truth.

 

[Brendan W]

In an ordered world that statement is an absolute truth.

That's probably the real reason I like bikes.