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Charging System question/confusion

  • Thread starter Thread starter ehkmcveh
  • Start date Start date
E

ehkmcveh

Guest
Charging system failed on me and left me stranded on thehighway, got a tow back to my house.
Went through the stator papers and found my stator onlyoutputting 57V ish on each phase, changed it out with one from ebay (USAbought) and now reading around 67VAC. Also found my R/R with a blow diode, againordered one that was compatible with the PN for the original OEM R/R. (yeah I probcould have gotten away with leaving the stator)
So when I have everything hooked up except the red lead outof the R/R, I used my voltmeter and measure about 14V between the red lead andthe ground (which I hooked up directly to the negative terminal on the battery).When I hook the red lead back up to the bike, the voltage at the battery sagsto abouyt 12.3V at idle, when I rev it it doesn?t change too much after that,maybe like 0.2 to 0.3V ? Took the red lead and hooked it directly up to the positivebatter post and experience the same thing?
The battery was replaced last year, fancy new sealed one.

Also? After staring at the wiring diagram for a while, itappears the bike can run without the battery as it appears its only used forelectric start, once I have the bike idling and pull the positive lead off thebattery? the bike shuts off? Anyone else experience this?
 
1.) You should not run the bike with the R/R red not connected to the battery. It is a meaningless test.
2.) You should never do this test with the R/R red connected but the battery disconnected. The voltage can go very high without a battery and damage electronics.
3.) You should redo the Phase B stator tests including the leg to ground at 5K RPM. It sounds like the stator is still shorted unless your other connections are just horrible.
4.) Go from there.
 
ehkmcveh said:
..................... .
.............

Also? After staring at the wiring diagram for a while, itappears the bike can run without the battery as it appears its only used forelectric start, once I have the bike idling and pull the positive lead off thebattery? the bike shuts off? Anyone else experience this?
Click to expand...

Yes. Because the charging system doesnt put out much of anything with engine at idle speed (and as such, then do need a battery).
 
posplayr said:
1.) You should not run the bike with the R/R red not connected to the battery. It is a meaningless test.
2.) You should never do this test with the R/R red connected but the battery disconnected. The voltage can go very high without a battery and damage electronics.
3.) You should redo the Phase B stator tests including the leg to ground at 5K RPM. It sounds like the stator is still shorted unless your other connections are just horrible.
4.) Go from there.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks for the reply.


After reading the "GS Charging System Health" I question my connections even though the passed the stator phase A initially, I was mucking with them after though.. Would like to get better connections (prob gonna do solder). I see that in STEP#1 you bypassed the "lightning switch" on one of the startor phases and went directly into the R/R with all three. l will follow suite, just wondering why suzuki did this in the first place....

Also does anyone have a decent quality wiring diagram for a 1979 GS 750? Nothing for this years bike on bikecliffs


Re did Phase B, results are
0.71, 0.7. 0.72 ohms between each phase, good
OL, OL, OL phase to ground, good
64,63, 60 VAC between phase at about 5000rpm (typical cruising speed), good
Based on this i would say the STATOR is OK.


Test phase C, showed some interesting results. have a few questions
1. RED multimeter lead to RED R/R +, and BLACK multimeter to each yellow wire
OL, OL, OL . These results don't match anything in the flow chart.


2. BLACK multimeter lead to RED R/R +, and RED multimeter to each yellow wire
1.83, 1.84, 1.84 V. Again these results dont match anything in the flow chart.


3. BLACK multimeter lead to RED R/R -, and RED multimeter to each yellow wire
OL, OL, OL . These results dont match anything in the flow chart


4. RED multimeter lead to RED R/R -, and BLACK multimeter to each yellow wire
0.495, 0.499, 0.508 V.


From what i have seen on Youtube
OL, OL, OL
0.5, 0.5, 0.5 ish
OL, OL, OL
0.5, 0.5, 0.5 ish
Is a pass.


The R/R i got was suppose to be a directly replacement for suzuki PN. 32800-44010
Link to the one i bought . https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Voltage-Reg...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648

Once i can get the tools/materials to do the proper connection for STEP #1 of the "GS charging sustem health". I will proceed
Just want to get someone's opinion on the results for Test Phase C
 
Good work, but a couple of things:
I ignore phase C tests and results. They are pretty useless.
You do not appear to have reported the leg to ground at 5krpm results. This is an AC voltage test not ohms.
Ohm tests are also irrelevant.

also before anything else just do the Quick test.(see link in dig)
 
Last edited:
posplayr said:
Good work, but a couple of things:
I ignore phase C tests and results. They are pretty useless.
You do not appear to have reported the leg to ground at 5krpm results. This is an AC voltage test not ohms.
Ohm tests are also irrelevant.

also before anything else just do the Quick test.(see link in dig)
Click to expand...

Right... OK leg to ground (at battery post) is 27VAC, 22VAC, 27VAC at about 5000 rpm
I dont know the integrity of the ground point though as i have no redone the single grounding point as stated in STEP #1. the ground on the - post of the battery looks kinda crusty

I will do the "quick test" once i get the tools/materials to redo my connections
 
ehkmcveh said:
Right... OK leg to ground (at battery post) is 27VAC, 22VAC, 27VAC at about 5000 rpm
I dont know the integrity of the ground point though as i have no redone the single grounding point as stated in STEP #1. the ground on the - post of the battery looks kinda crusty

I will do the "quick test" once i get the tools/materials to redo my connections
Click to expand...

Your stator is 99% positively fried and it happened because you have a Shunt R/R. That R/R you selected is another Shunt R/R which will also burn the stator unless it goes out first which might save the stator.

I think you did enough testing before to not need the Quick test right now, but it will show flat voltage values.
 
posplayr said:
Your stator is 99% positively fried and it happened because you have a Shunt R/R. That R/R you selected is another Shunt R/R which will also burn the stator unless it goes out first which might save the stator.

I think you did enough testing before to not need the Quick test right now, but it will show flat voltage values.
Click to expand...

Darn....not good news then
I'm picking up the vibe that the STARTOR PAPERS are ****.... since Phase B passed on all tests.
What leg to ground voltages should I be expecting? or anything more detailed i can read up on for testing stators.
I had that stator/ Shunt R/R setup only for about 100km riding. I wonder what caused it to blow so quick. The longest ride I took it on was to work, about 30km (since I clearly didn't trust the charging system)
The GS Stator thread did say that SHUNT R/R 750CC would be borderline
The stator I bought is https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Stator-Fits...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
 
ehkmcveh said:
Darn....not good news then
I'm picking up the vibe that the STARTOR PAPERS are ****.... since Phase B passed on all tests.
What leg to ground voltages should I be expecting? or anything more detailed i can read up on for testing stators.
I had that stator/ Shunt R/R setup only for about 100km riding. I wonder what caused it to blow so quick. The longest ride I took it on was to work, about 30km (since I clearly didn't trust the charging system)
The GS Stator thread did say that SHUNT R/R 750CC would be borderline
The stator I bought is https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Stator-Fits...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Click to expand...

Counter to my recommendation, the revised stator pages included a lot of historically relevant, but practically superfulous information.
For example:

  • Any ohm meter testing of the stator is contradictory to the First and Second law of stator testing (search on my name), but was included becuase it is in the factory manual.
  • The Phase B tests specify the leg to ground tests at 5K RPM and I even called it out to you but you missed it probably because all of the "historical content" which cause you to overlook the most important test (the one mentioned). It should be isolated and ZERO Volts. This catches 99% of stator failures.
  • I created the "Quick Test" due to the difficulty most people have with going through the full gauntlet of tests. It takes minimal effort and it allows me or other similarly qualified persons to diagnose the charging. Eventu,ally it will be much more well known and accepted and the community will self support in diagnosing the systems of new comers well after I'm gone.
  • Stators with SHUNT R/R are very suceptable to burning up although the outcome for any particular situation is a function of several factors. That said, Quite simply if your's is burned, then you have the sufficent factors to warrant changing to SERIES. Becuase it will likely happen again with a SHUNT R/R.
 
Last edited:
posplayr said:
Counter to my recommendation, the revised stator pages included a lot of historically relevant, but practically superfulous information.
For example:

  • Any ohm meter testing of the stator is contradictory to the First and Second law of stator testing (search on my name), but was included becuase it is in the factory manual.
  • The Phase B tests specify the leg to ground tests at 5K RPM and I even called it out to you but you missed it probably because all of the "historical content" which cause you to overlook the most important test (the one mentioned). It should be isolated and ZERO Volts. This catches 99% of stator failures.
  • I created the "Quick Test" due to the difficulty most people have with going through the full gauntlet of tests. It takes minimal effort and it allows me or other similarly qualified persons to diagnose the charging. Eventu,ally it will be much more well known and accepted and the community will self support in diagnosing the systems of new comers well after I'm gone.
  • Stators with SHUNT R/R are very suceptable to burning up although the outcome for any particular situation is a function of several factors. That said, Quite simply if your's is burned, then you have the sufficent factors to warrant changing to SERIES. Becuase it will likely happen again with a SHUNT R/R.
Click to expand...

Just so I am 100% clear, when i rev the bike to 5000 rpm ish i should be getting 0V between each phase of the stator and ground. If i get any other number (27VAC shown above) this shows a closed circuit where the stator is somehow making contact with the engine itself, thus wrecking stator. Correct?

Even Bikcliffs "Testing the stator" document doesn't show the 5000rpm leg to ground test, Is there any other sources/threads (that you have written or not) that can read up on, you said FIRST AND SECOND LAW OF STATOR TESTING (search your name)... i dunno couldn't find anything,

Excited to get to actually do "Quick Test" once I can get this all figured
 
ehk
I went through the same thing a month ago. I ended up putting in a new stator, used SH775, made a single point ground, eliminated the headlamp loop, cleaned up and/or made new connections on everything involving the battery, stator, R/R, and all the grounds I could find. If you want you can follow that thread. posplayr, Steve and others know their stuff and really want to help you.
https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...GS-750TZ-Lets-get-this-charging-system-sorted
 
Last edited:
ehkmcveh said:
Just so I am 100% clear, when i rev the bike to 5000 rpm ish i should be getting 0V between each phase of the stator and ground. If i get any other number (27VAC shown above) this shows a closed circuit where the stator is somehow making contact with the engine itself, thus wrecking stator. Correct?

Even Bikcliffs "Testing the stator" document doesn't show the 5000rpm leg to ground test, Is there any other sources/threads (that you have written or not) that can read up on, you said FIRST AND SECOND LAW OF STATOR TESTING (search your name)... i dunno couldn't find anything,

Excited to get to actually do "Quick Test" once I can get this all figured
Click to expand...

FIRST-and-SECOND-LAW-of-Stator-testing

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...AW-of-Stator-testing&highlight=Stator+testing

This is the Leg Ground portion of the Phase B test.



Continue revving the engine at approx. 5000 RPM. Leave the multimeter set to AC-Voltage (Range at least to 100 Vac). Connect a multimeter lead to one of the three yellow wires emerging from the stator and connect the other multimeter lead to the battery(-). Check the reading on the meter. Switch the multimeter leads to another one of the three yellow wires and check the reading again. Connect the multimeter lead to the last of the three yellow wires, and check the reading again.
Are any of the three readings not equal to 0 volts (AC)?
arrow.right.png
Bad News! Stator is at fault. Replace the stator and return to Phase A!

All three readings are equal to 0 Volts (AC)
arrow.down.png

Click to expand...

 
Last edited:
Rich82GS750TZ said:
ehk
I went through the same thing a month ago. I ended up putting in a new stator, used SH775, made a single point ground, eliminated the headlamp loop, cleaned up and/or made new connections on everything involving the battery, stator, R/R, and all the grounds I could find. If you want you can follow that thread. posplayr, Steve and others know their stuff and really want to help you.
https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...GS-750TZ-Lets-get-this-charging-system-sorted
Click to expand...

Excellent thread, thanks for the post !
Suppose im looking into the ES stator, SH-775 Rect and proper connections!
I noticed you didnt post or test the leg to ground with the new ESG014 stator. I guess results in the "Quick test" she was at zero ish
 
I did test, but didn't bother posting the new stator leg to ground on each of the 3 legs at 5K RPM was zero.

Don't forget, you need to start with a new or known good battery.
 
Last edited:
ehkmcveh said:
Alright looking at getting this guy, doesn't say if its series or shunt though... Hoping someone could weigh in... Also do you need the adapter kit? prob keep water/debris out
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Voltage-Reg...3?hash=item3d6a0a2fdb:g:2rYAAOSwlo9bLAGC#rwid
Click to expand...
Pass on that R/R, it's not a 775.

Here is one for $10 (plus shipping). Does not specifically say 775, but has all the other items that make me think it's OK.
If I needed another spare, I would not be mentioning this one to you.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polaris-Rz...254063?hash=item2cd93d9a2f:g:wp0AAOSwciVbbajP

If someone beats you to that one, here is the next one I would look for:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-2014-...829280?hash=item3d70d234a0:g:mUkAAOSwNgpbd4IH

One last item:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/13-POLARIS...488699&hash=item3b18d22500:g:U4MAAOSwZHxbduqv

.
 
I notice one of the fake makers has caught on to the nubs on the heatsink fins of the genuine SH-775, and is making exact copies now.
 
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