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Chasing my electrical problems on my GS450

^^yeah, like that!

WAS going to go for a 7" or even 8" bucket and lens (from a larger GS model) but I knew the fork ears would not fit the 6.5" mounting width
Click to expand...

actually, it's interesting to note that some of larger bikes had ears that were bent at angles "outwards" to take buckets ...for a different reason,per the way their ears are attached, but you might incorporate that idea somewhere if you Do step back and find a bigger bikes headlamp...

Yes, the oem buckets have enough room for the simple450/400 wiring ... having that bigger hole at the bottom than yours is helpful too.

how a few have successfully removed the stock incandescent bulb and secured the replacement bulb with glue or wires or rubber bands
Click to expand...
(from sealed beams) I've done this on a couple but no rubber bands needed. Just trim the H4 with shears use the same rubber washers and bend the tabs back....and put it in correctly per up/down. It's not ideal (the bent tabs fatigue so can only do it once) but is good enough until H4 bulb reflectors show up.
 
Your starter solenoid switching power goes through the kill switch, ignition switch, and probably the clutch switch. There are plenty of switches that maybe making intermittent contact.
 
blake989 said:
Only my second post, but I've tinkered with two GS450s now and have found the same problem on both, which will apply to you. One of the wires from the stator routes behind the R/R, but instead of going directly to the R/R, it routed all the way through the headlight bucket for absolutely no reason (well documented on here, but probably a wiring harness common to multiple bikes). Both my two had burned up the multi-wire connector in the headlight bucket.
Click to expand...

The reason for the 3rd leg of the stator going through the headlight is to insure the 3rd leg is inactive unless the headlight is on. If this is bypassed, and the headlight is turned off, the battery will be continuously overcharged and fail and the extra heat developed in the R/R due to having to shunt too much amperage to ground will fry the R/R.
 
Slow progress on these issues ... but I'll get there.

Today I found what I think solves my headlight replacement issues. I found that the stock Suzuki headlight bucket for many GS bikes is .... part 5181-16 including my 1985 GS450. A seller on Ebay had a LIKE NEW complete headlight assembly .... with a replaceable H4 bulb and not a sealed beam like my old one. $60. So I can upgrade my headlight brightness and not have any issues with routing of the wiring harness into the bucket.

If someone else can use my generic chromed bullet shaped headlight ... just let me know. Pic was attached to previous post.
 
Here it is 3 months later ....... and I am finally getting around to installing a replacement stock OEM Suzuki bucket and headlight reflector .... with replaceable bulb design. I carefully inserted the wiring harness coming into the bucket from the left and right lower grommet holes. Had to use my best guestament in routing the 2 large clusters of wires and to allow space in the middle for the bulb and reflector to go on later. I think all is tucked in there pretty well .... but now I have some loose connectors without a match! I tried to arrange the connectors in the center so I could take a picture of them .... and maybe someone can suggest what I am missing? I should have written down the the wire colors, but maybe the picture shows those? Seems there was a double green and a double brown. Also an all white wire and a white wire with very small black stripes. I am not good at ready wire schematics ... though lately I have made a little sense out of it. I stopped to clean all bullet connectors in the bucket .... male and female and grease them.


new bucket4.jpg
 
Black with a white tracer is harness ground. If you are going to do electrical work you should take note of the colors. One thing that Suzuki pretty much standardized on across all GS bike models is wire color.
 
the double light green wire is to plug in RIGHT turn signals. It is double because it has to goto back of bike too. The other LEFT turn signal will plug in to a double light blue.

The black wires are the actual signals themselves. They are not colour coded because they will work on either side-eases replacement!!

The White-with-stripe is a question It is NOT THE SAME as Black/WHITE stripe......I am not sure. If White/BLACK stripe, IT might be for headlamp, or kill switchor clutch switch but it doesn't suit the code I am looking at. Might be from an aftermarket replacement.....FOLLOW it-that'll tell you.

IF it is white/GREEN stripe, OR white/RED stripe it is:

the so-called headlamp switch stator loop They come all the way from the stator to here. "We" mostly disable it at the stator so that these wires are not used except as spares ...perhaps rewired as an auxiliary for a phone charger or gps......as "original"should really only be used with the original rectifier/regulator.
 
Thanks for the good suggestions, guys. I have made some progress. Turn signals work, starter motor turns over the engine and dash lights come on. However, I have 4 connection still loose.

From the starter button housing comes 2 wires with male connectors ..... Orange (connected) and the WHITE with black stripe wire (the kill switch wire?) .... where to?
The single ALL WHITE female connector?
The second single BLACK with white stripes female?
The double BROWN female?

I took a new picture of the 3 loose female connectors .... and the 1 male from the starter housing.

HL11.jpg
 
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I have to go with the diagrams I have handy but ....

I have a sneaking suspicion the Orange and the White/Black stripe will be your front brake light switch. The diagram I have shows these to be Orange and White wires.
SO! plug the White/Bk male into the white female and the Orange into Orange.


Brown should be for your tailight. It often has an extra input for a front parking light UNUSED in Canada and the US. But I haven't seen one like yours if it has two female connectors. You could use it for running lights.

Black/white stripe is Always "Ground"...that is, it eventually gets attached to the frame of the bike and gets "Negative" from the battery through it's big "ground strap" .
You have the turn signals correctly connected-indeed they have a double female ground.

The single female ground is looking for a mate? Well, it might be the ground for the" Not-used In Canada/US-Front parking lamp"...I'd have to pull up a Euro or UK diagram to see if I'm right
 
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Gorminrider said:
I have to go with the diagrams I have handy but ....

I have a sneaking suspicion the Orange and the White/Black stripe will be your front brake light switch. The diagram I have shows these to be Orange and White wires.
SO! plug the White/Bk male into the white female and the Orange into Orange.

Brown should be for your tailight. It often has an extra input for a front parking light UNUSED in Canada and the US. But I haven't seen one like yours if it has two female connectors. You could use it for running lights.

Black/white stripe is Always "Ground"...that is, it eventually gets attached to the frame of the bike and gets "Negative" from the battery through it's big "ground strap" .
You have the turn signals correctly connected-indeed they have a double female ground.

The single female ground is looking for a mate? Well, it might be the ground for the" Not-used In Canada/US-Front parking lamp"...I'd have to pull up a Euro or UK diagram to see if I'm right
Click to expand...

Right you are Gorminrider about the orange/white black being the front brake light switch wires. I also had the 2 all black single male connectors from the front turn signals connected to the double light green and double black female connectors. There was no double light blue wires but I did see a double brown you mention .... but didn't use it. Should I swap from the double black to the double brown? Anyway, my tail and brake light ... and my turn signals work fine now as is connected. I think I have all wires connected up properly in the bucket ... with a spare bl/white connector.

Anyway, with your advice I got to the point where I started to mount the headlight reflector ... and succeeded after several attempts to fit all together. Then I tried to start the engine. After several failed attempts the engine started to pop a bit ... but when I let off thumb pressure on the starter button .... the starter motor continued to crank the engine as had happened last year!! I turned off the ignition switch and the starter continued cranking. Finally I was able to disconnect the neg side of battery to STOP it.

This nasty issue seems to be an intermittent problem .... and Not acceptable as is. Can someone remind me what I am doing wrong? Time for me to also go back on an old thread to see what was said then. This bike has been a hard one to restore.
 
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double black is correct!! My mistake.Brain Fart Light blue on your bike should bring blinking power from turn relay to handlebar switch and thereby sent to double lightgreen and double black. (my excuse....my Honda uses light blue as turn)

Double brown... test my theory. Turn your Key to PARK. Put positive voltmeter probe to brown, negative voltmeter probe to Ground on the frame. You should see 12-13volts. Key to Off- nothing. Key to Run, again, it's got power.
OR use a "test light". (a small 12volt bulb with a couple of wires attached) It should light when key turned to PARK.

Your starter trouble... your solenoid is stuck. BUT it's not neccesarily it's fault. The easy suspect is starter button. Too easy. so 'll be back in a minute...
 
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Ok here's a diagram I made of just the starter circuit. There are no other wires involved.
03starter.jpg

Uploading better image is a bit of a nuisance here but right-click, save as should download it to a computer and you can zoom in a bit...otherwise, clutch safety switch is at bottom of image, starter button is at top, solenoid and starter motor is top right. It's really pretty simple...The Black/white stripe ground for this circuiit is ONLY at the solenoid. Of course the starter motor has no ground wire being grounded through bike frame ...

Plainly, the yellow/green stripe wire is the easy one to check out ...note that you can "play" with it at the clutch safety switch-there are bullet connectors there so it's easy to access for trouble shooting....that is, disconnect there and and apply positive 12 volts and your solenoid will engage (and motor will spin but you can disconnect starter motor and listen for solid click as solenoid moves...click click click as you touch 12v to the wire) . That would quickly test for starter Button issue. ...
If not a button issue... well try fiddlin with this first.
 
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I still have to open up the clutch and throttle housings to inspect and clean.

Meanwhile I tried again to start the engine but was only getting a few "popps" out of it. Then I realized I had 1 spark wire off. After more attempts to start, my solenoid crapped out again and got stuck in the start motor position ... so I had to pull the neg side of battery off again.to stop it. Then I gave the battery a charge and today attempted to get another start. As soon as I made contact with the cable connector to the neg batt terminal, it tried to start the engine ... so my assumption is the starter solenoid is stuck and needs to be replaced. Am I correct? The starter button coil spring seems fine and is pushing the button away from contact when thumb pressure is released.. So my assumption is for ime to shop for a new solenoid .... on Ebay, etc?
 
Easy to test if the solenoid is stuck on - disconnect the starter and the wire going to the button. Short the "button terminal" to the battery and see if it clicks. You could remove a turn signal or something, ground it and connect the other lead to the solenoid starter motor output. See if it lights up/turns off.
You could also disconnect the leads going to/from the battery and test those with a multimeter to make sure it's not stuck on.
 
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dennco2 said:
I still have to open up the clutch and throttle housings to inspect and clean.

Meanwhile I tried again to start the engine but was only getting a few "popps" out of it. Then I realized I had 1 spark wire off. After more attempts to start, my solenoid crapped out again and got stuck in the start motor position ... so I had to pull the neg side of battery off again.to stop it. Then I gave the battery a charge and today attempted to get another start. As soon as I made contact with the cable connector to the neg batt terminal, it tried to start the engine ... so my assumption is the starter solenoid is stuck and needs to be replaced. Am I correct? The starter button coil spring seems fine and is pushing the button away from contact when thumb pressure is released.. So my assumption is for ime to shop for a new solenoid .... on Ebay, etc?
Click to expand...

Sure, solenoids do fail, and a new one could be the answer but even so, why not be sure?
Don't make assumptions-find out. Simplest for you is to take the solenoid off and "bench test" it before you run off to buy things...because stuff like "starter button coil spring seems fine and is pushing the button away from contact when thumb pressure is released.." is not a help to me to tell you you are "correct" .
Reading literally, (which I must) just tells me the spring is fine but not that the circuit is also opening and closing...the posts above and below yours both try to describe simple tests to find out if the solenoid is the likely problem. You can, for instance, disconnect the yellow green wire at the connectors when solenoid sticks. There are several places to do this shown in the diagram. But, interesting is that you haven't mentioned the clutch lever safety switch, which is a red flag. It has been disabled OR mis-connected etc...
 
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I have read and printed out your responses ... so I can go to my bike tomorrow and attempt to accomplish the tests and the solution. You mention the clutch lever safety switch and that is what I will look into tomorrow as well. The last time I attempted to start the engine, I noticed I could engage the starter without pulling the clutch handle ... where as before I had to???.

I am having a hard time with your starter circuit diagram due to the low quality fuzzy image ... so I tried to find it in the GS resources but found a different diagram for the GS450 on GSR. Then my repair manual wiring diagram looks different as well .... not laid out the same, but I can read it. I was hoping to find the exact GSR diagram you used ... and then be able to zoom in for more clarity. I do have a basic understanding of the starting circuit but now I know it also includes the clutch lever.
 
Today warned up to 54 ... so I finally got out to try the suggestions and sort out why my starter is engaged all the time and won't release. On the solenoid, I disconnected the starter connection and the yellow/green wire to the starter button. Then I shorted the button terminal to the battery .... and yes I got clicks out of the solenoid! It clicks with key on or key off. So that means the solenoid is good .... and I have to look elsewhere.

I also pulled the connection right under the clutch lever to clean what appeared to be 2 small brass bars. Further inspection is needed, as I have not found the clutch safety switch you mention with connector pins. I pulled the light switch housing apart and only removed 2 steel plates to clean .... as that was all I saw to come apart in there. I pulled the starter switch and kill button housing apart on the right handle bar to inspect again. Previously I had cleaned the starter button contacts.I also torqued down on the ground strap from battery to engine case. So at this point, I am uncertain how to proceed. EDIT: I need to go back in there to inspect and test for power.

I am wondering if I miss-connected something in the headlight bucket when changing the old bulb headlight to the new bucket and H4 headlight system? The 1985 bike has never allowed me to start the engine without depressing the clutch first. Then after the headlight swap, that feature did not work and I could start without pulling the clutch handle. And the latest problem is ... after cranking for a long time to get started, the starter wouldn't stop cranking when I let go the button. 2 weeks ago that issue forced me to disconnect the battery ground to stop the starter and today I just touched the negative connector to the battery terminal ..... and the starter motor kicked in gear again .... so I had to pull the ground connector off immediately.

I think when I get this problem solved ... my bike will be operational again!
 
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After reading some previous posts again, later today I will go back to the yellow and green wire and the starter button connection to see if I can find the problem .... and report back what I find. After looking at the starter wiring diagrams longer ... it's making a little more sense to me.

So far I have noticed the yellow/green wire looks compromised with a small area of bare wire right before the white connector plug to the solenoid. Also, if may be totally different issue but a few weeks ago, there was a spark and bad short created when I shoved the battery back in the battery box .... so I will look for exposed wire on the positive side of the battery.
 
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