Checking the starter

[ekabil]

When I press the start button, all I get ?s a click. Battery is at 12.3v with key on.
Some voltages:
Battery, start button pressed: 12.3

Solenoid terminals: 12v
Solenoid terminals, start button pressed: 0v
Positive solenoid to ground (frame): 12v
Same with button pressed: 12v

I have 40 ohms from solenoid negative to the engine.

Because of the low resistance from solenoid neg to ground, I do not think it is due to a mere connection issue. I don't think that simply cleaning the nut on the starter motor will fix it in other words.

This leaves the starter motor. Now with regards to testing it:

Can I jump the battery direct to starter, bypassing solenoid, with the starter in the bike? This would be the definitive test of the starter vs connection/solenoid.
But I am afraid I will have to pull the starter first or risk damage, right?

 

[Steve]

First thing to check is with an old screwdriver. Short across the solenoid terminals, the starter should spin. Key does not have to be on for this test.

If the starter is still sluggish or "dead", try connecting jumper cables to a NON-RUNNING car, just to make sure that your battery is not the problem.

If things are still not happy, try the connections at the starter. Make sure the cable coming from the solenoid is clean and tight, make sure the mounting bolts are tight, they are the ground connections. Also make sure the large cable from the back of the engine to the battery is clean and tight.

.

 

[ekabil]

Shorting the solenoid does nothing. No sparks , no start spIn, nothing

 

[Steve]

Then check farther down the line, like the starter.

.

 

[ekabil]

Starter is the end of the line though, right. I mean, it's either the connection to starter or the starter motor itself. There are several threads about fixing the starter/rebuilding. But if I were to get a new one, where is a good place to get it?

And do I really have to take the carbs off to take the starter out? Manual says yes but somebody somewhere said they did it without having to. And I dont have to open the alternator case either right. Just starter cover, possibly carbs, and I'll need a soft mallet or something to dislodge it. Well this should be fun. Thanks Steve.

 

[cowboyup3371]

When you say the solenoid is connected to the frame, do you mean through your airbox or is the cable that runs from the solenoid to the starter actually connected to the frame?

You should have a positive cable from the battery to the solenoid, one from the same post of the solenoid to the fuse block, and one from the opposite post to the starter. Then you'll also have a green/yellow wire to the harness. Ground is provided through the mounting brackets to the airbox

 

[Steve]

Starter is the end of the line though, right.

No, the 'end of the line' is the battery.

Go back, read my suggestions, follow them.

Battery. Solenoid. Starter. GROUND WIRE. Battery.

I mean, it's either the connection to starter or the starter motor itself.

Very true. The GROUND WIRE is one of the "connections to the starter".

But if I were to get a new one, where is a good place to get it?

Stockers Starters.

And do I really have to take the carbs off to take the starter out?

No. I have pulled the starte out on an 850, the 1100 has a bit more room.

And I dont have to open the alternator case either right. Just starter cover, possibly carbs, and I'll need a soft mallet or something to dislodge it.

No, you don't have to open the stator cover.

No, you don't have to remove the carbs.

No, you won't need a rubber mallet.

10mm wrenches to remove the nuts on the cables.
7mm wrench to remove the starter cover.
10mm socket to remove the starter mount bolts
Lift the back end a bit, wiggle it a bit, slide it to the right side of the bike, lift it out.

.

 

[bakalorz]

No, the 'end of the line' is the battery.

Go back, read my suggestions, follow them.

Battery. Solenoid. Starter. GROUND WIRE. Battery.



Very true. The GROUND WIRE is one of the "connections to the starter".



Stockers Starters.



No. I have pulled the starte out on an 850, the 1100 has a bit more room.



No, you don't have to open the stator cover.

No, you don't have to remove the carbs.

No, you won't need a rubber mallet.

10mm wrenches to remove the nuts on the cables.
7mm wrench to remove the starter cover.
10mm socket to remove the starter mount bolts
Lift the back end a bit, wiggle it a bit, slide it to the right side of the bike, lift it out.

.

All of the above, but also ... if it is the starter, often it's just the brushes ...

once it's out, the starter is easy to take apart ... if you do, you can easily see if it is the brushes (they'll be too short)

if they are, you can buy new "official" ones I think ...

when it happened to me, I went to an alternator repair shop, and bought some junk brushes from a "bigger" starter or alternator for $1 (which were bigger) and filed them down till they fit the holder ... (they are fairly soft and not too bad to file ... messy as hell though) ... an hour's work and $1 and I was running again ...
(well ... not counting pulling the carbs ... gotta do that for a 650, the 650 is tight ...)

 

[ekabil]

"When you say the solenoid is connected to the frame, do you mean through your airbox or is the cable that runs from the solenoid to the starter actually connected to the frame?"

I just meant that I measured the voltage from the solenoid to the frame, or really from the solenoid through the starter to the engine to the frame. My solenoid isn't hooked up to the frame.

"No, the 'end of the line' is the battery."

Hehe looks like the battery is the end and beginning of the line

Steve I have done those things, except the jumping from another battery, which I will do. Thank you for the awesome advice again

 

[Ice]

I had this problem with the exact some conditions as you. It was the starter, which died, and had to be replaced. I was able to get one on ebay for 40, and I bought a rebuild kit as well, which I did.

Even if it's a bad battery, it will still try to turn over.

 

[Toadstool Food]

Relay bypass

Relay bypass

I have used my jump start box to pretty good effect for testing the starter. It is much more reliable (and safer) than a screw driver. Ground the negative lead to the motor, in case your ground is faulty. Carefully place the positive lead on the starter side of the relay. You can use the on/off switch to apply power to the starter directly. Of course this overrides all of the interlocks, so make sure you are not in gear.

 

[Steve]

I have used my jump start box to pretty good effect for testing the starter. It is much more reliable (and safer) than a screw driver.

Personally, I would rather use a screwdriver there is nothing unsafe about that.

While your jump start box might be OK to test the starter, you might have to be careful if you connect it to anything else on the bike.
I have seen some of the higher-powered jump boxes that use higher voltage to keep the amps down a bit.
That higher voltage will fry your R/R and cause other problems.

Before you connect your jump box to the bike, check the output voltage on it.

.

 

[ekabil]

yeah once I used a wrench to short the solenoid, and later realized how lucky I was to not get shocked. I seriously doubt its the battery because of how sudden it stopped working. Anythings possible. I am going to adjust the valves today, or at least look at them and order shims if needed, and then look at the starter, pull it if necessary.

To minimize the risk of arcing and shorting, I am going to attach the jumper cable to the starter terminal first (while its in the bike), then attach the other end to the battery. With the bike on and in neutral. If this doesn't get the starter running then its definitely bad. Unless the cable from the battery negative to engine mount is really dirty but somehow I doubt that it could have gotten that messed up in so short a time (when I replaced stator two months ago I moved the battery-to-engine ground over one bolt since the old one was very rusted).