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Clutch doesn't disengage?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MK3Brent
  • Start date Start date
M

MK3Brent

Guest
Hey guys.

I was buttoning everything back up ready for a long ride tomorrow, when I kicked the bike down into 1st the bike stalled.

Put the bike up on the center stand and realized that the clutch wasn't disengaging.

I figured maybe the lower position with the clip-on handle bars was the issue, so I re-adjusted the cable tension. I'm getting what looks like 3/4 of travel at the pivot bolt to the clutch... but cannot freely turn the rear wheel.

Any ideas?

I removed the cover to inspect the clutches and didn't see anything apparently wrong, so I buttoned it all back up.

This is very frustrating.

1983 GS750E
 
I tried moving the shift arm over a couple notches, and put as much tension as I can on the cable and it still is very difficult to turn the rear wheel.

I rode the bike less than a week ago with no issues.

The only thing I changed were the position of my clip-ons down a couple inches below the top triple tree. :(
 
So I took the cover off to look at the clutch again, this time checking the torque on the pressure plate springs. 2 bolts were loose.

One loose, and the other apparently stripped.

I was able to torque down the one bolt, and get a little torque on the stripped bolt.

I decided to try one more time, and same story.
The pivot arm moves a total of 12mm [.47"]

How much is it supposed to move? I couldn't find this value in the shop manuals I have. For reference, one of my other bikes (2005 Ninja 250), that pivot arm moves 10mm [.40"].

So maybe my problem is in the clutch and those springs... I'll have to get a new basket I think... Or maybe helicoil... but would have to helicoil them all to keep it balanced.

Probably better off just replacing the entire assembly.
Will tear into it tomorrow I guess. :(
 
Took out the clutches to inspect them. Some were stuck together a little.

Looks like it's time for a new basket + clutch/steel.

10154201_616866590161_2516042114502031335_n_zps3db9056e.jpg
 
THat is some bad bluing on your steel plates there, although taht should not cause what you are experiencing.
Have you checked for warpage? Plates getting that hot may very well have warped.
have the fingers of the fibre plates and the splines of the steels knocked grooves into your basket, if so, how bad are the grooves?
How about a few pics of the basket without the plates in so we can see.

It may be something as simple as just removing the plates, cleaning them and repacking them back in so they don't stick together.
And yes, stripped threads on the clutch spring bolts is a problem, get it seen to, rather sooner than alter, before it leaves you on the side of the road.
Not sure you will be able to heli-coil the holes, there is not much meat there, might have to troll e-bay for a good basket for not too much money.
 
Flyboy said:
THat is some bad bluing on your steel plates there, although taht should not cause what you are experiencing.
Have you checked for warpage? Plates getting that hot may very well have warped.
have the fingers of the fibre plates and the splines of the steels knocked grooves into your basket, if so, how bad are the grooves?
How about a few pics of the basket without the plates in so we can see.

It may be something as simple as just removing the plates, cleaning them and repacking them back in so they don't stick together.
And yes, stripped threads on the clutch spring bolts is a problem, get it seen to, rather sooner than alter, before it leaves you on the side of the road.
Not sure you will be able to heli-coil the holes, there is not much meat there, might have to troll e-bay for a good basket for not too much money.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response.

I did some of the things you mentioned.

Once I removed the plates, I cleaned them and re-packed them into the assembly. It was then, that last pressure plate bolt stripped completely. The basket is garbage. I have a replacement on the way.

I also got one of those EBC tools to hold the basket while I remove the nut. It's a 31mm nut if I remember correctly. I will definitely update the thread once the new basket and clutches come in.

Thanks!

13680003513_0b2cefb222.jpg
 
Slip

Slip

Hi all,

I don't have the problem about the clutch not fully disengaging, but I do get some very noticeable slip if I really get on it. I know almost nothing about clutches. My bike has under 17k miles on it. Is this an adjustable thing, or am I looking at a rebuild?
 
Check your cable routing and free play, make sure you have free play and the cable is not partially applying tension to and riding the clutch.
The most common causes of a slipping clutch would be due to fair wear and tear, either the friction plates worn down beyond service limits, or the clutch springs have have lost their tension and no longer clamp the clutch pack together tightly enough, resulting in slip.
However, at 17k miles I doubt one of these would be the cause, unless the clutch has seen some serious abuse, so check the cable first.
Have you added any sort of low friction additive such as "Prolong" or "Slick 50" to your oil?
If so, that is in all probability your problem, drain the oil, junk the clutch plates for new ones and start again, and don't ever put that stuff in your bike.
 
Flyboy said:
Check your cable routing and free play, make sure you have free play and the cable is not partially applying tension to and riding the clutch.
The most common causes of a slipping clutch would be due to fair wear and tear, either the friction plates worn down beyond service limits, or the clutch springs have have lost their tension and no longer clamp the clutch pack together tightly enough, resulting in slip.
However, at 17k miles I doubt one of these would be the cause, unless the clutch has seen some serious abuse, so check the cable first.
Have you added any sort of low friction additive such as "Prolong" or "Slick 50" to your oil?
If so, that is in all probability your problem, drain the oil, junk the clutch plates for new ones and start again, and don't ever put that stuff in your bike.
Click to expand...

Clutch plate wear depends on mileage and abuse. The springs on the other hand have been compressed or thirty some years. They are shorter than they were originally. This will cause slipping, which wears out the fiber plates. If the rider allows the slipping to continue, it will burn up the plates quickly. The heat from this will ruin the steel plates as well. Your picture showed heat damage to the steels, by now everything is probably shot.
 
Well, I bought the other style of clutch basket I think... The one with the push rod vs. the pivot bolt through the top of the case.

So my question now is... are the baskets different? That's the part I really need. Also, the clutch discs look much better on this assembly, I'll measure them tomorrow and check the steels for flatness.

So can the basket be used on my model 750E? Or did I screw the pooch.

A quick search through the parts book results in basket part # HUB, SLEEVE 09263-51002 (which is the style of the push rod type.)

and
GEAR ASSY, PRIMARY DRIVEN NT:99
21200-45001 (the basket)

For the 83' 750E:

HUB, SLEEVE
21410-31302 21410-31304


So they're totally different part numbers... leading me to think they can't be interchanged. :( damn.
 
I went ahead and soaked the discs in oil from the donor clutch assembly from a 79 GS750. Just wanted to see if those discs made any difference, and nope. Still the same problem.

Can I get a confirmation of how much that pivot rod for the clutch throw-out is supposed to turn?

It could be as simple as my clutch cable is too long now that the controls are lower.
 
They don't turn real far, maybe 30 degrees or so? Don't have a bike here to look at right now.
 
Ya, it does not have to go far, 10mm will be plenty, remember all it has to do is take the tension (clamping force) away between the plates, that only takes a few mm's.

The springs on the other hand have been compressed or thirty some years
Click to expand...
Tom, Jennifer's springs have also been in there since '81 and they measure at new factory spec. :confused:

Th pic of the burnt plates was M3Brent's not A-train.
Just keepin' ya honest. ;)
 
Hmm, thought so. It's definitely moving a lot.

One last thing I'll try before swapping the basket out, is get that piano wire off so I can get those last couple plates out.

Perhaps they're the ones sticking... the other plates have been cleaned, oiled, and re-installed properly.
 
Good call, thought you had done that, it does not take a whole lot to stick, one or two will do it.
 
Flyboy said:
Good call, thought you had done that, it does not take a whole lot to stick, one or two will do it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sucks that threaded hole is stripped though.

I really appreciate everyone's help here.

Hope to have it fixed by the weekend... can't be but so many things. :p
 
Ya, it's not a complicated system, not much to go wrong in there.
Fiber plates connected to the crank, steels connected to the gearbox, like putting the whole pack in a vice and clamping hem together so they turn as a solid unit, transfering the force from the crank to the gearbox.
Pulling the clutch effectively is like opening the vice two or three turns, removing the clamping force so they spin individually, removing the driving force of the crank from the gearbox.

But you knew that already. :D:D
 
Well, I learned there's only a steel friction plate, wave washer, and some kind of wave washer seat behind the piano wire.

The friction plate looked a little different from the others. Looked like it have a little more wear on it.

I'll mic them all in a minute and post the results.
 
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