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Clutch Question...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
A

Anonymous

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When I started my bike yesterday, I noticed that something is not totally right with the clutch lever. Even when I have it all the way pressed, it's not disengaging all the way, hence, the motor drags when you try to start in gear. In neutral, it's fine. Would this be just a simple adjustment to the cable or something? I am hoping, it's an easy fix. I'd hate to have to get into the clutch bigtime, since I've never worked on a bike before. There's a big difference between putting a shift kit in an automatic car tranny and the bike. Scary. :cry:
 
Not sure how much drag you're talking about. Japanese wet clutch bikes always have some drag. Put any of them on a lift, with the rear tire off the ground, put 'em in first gear with the clutch pulled in, and the rear tire will still spin. They're just designed that way. It is much more noticable when the engine is cold because the oil is thicker. Some drag is normal, excessive drag can usually be adjusted out.
 
I would make sure the free play in the cable is adjusted properly. Then I'd check to make sure the some of the wires in the cable were not borken letting the cable stretch too much.
 
I went thru the clutch thing this past fall on my 83 GS 750ED. I'll pass what I learned along.
The symptoms were much as you describe, dragging when starting in gear. In my case no matter how much I adjusted the clutch, I could not delay the inevitable, replacing the fiber disks, springs in the clutch. I did replace the clutch cable, that didn't help.

I had never done anything like this ever, but I learned a few things along the way, mostly from the folks on this site.
1. A torque wrench is a must.
2. If the fiber disks are close to the allowable limit, figure on changing them. It's roughly 135.00 at Suzuki.
3. Check for scoring on the clutch hub basket(where the disks tabs fit in the hub basket) My bike had 50K on it and this was not a problem.
4. Replace with new the bolts that secure the clutch springs. (mine snapped off, required me to drill them out)
5. Pay close attention to the direction of the steel disks, the teeth have a smooth and sharp edge, they all must go back in the same way.
6. Buy a new gasket for the clutch cover.
7. If you can change the oil in a car, you can replace the clutch, it's messy, but not a big deal.
8. Ron Ayers has the best price on OEM parts, if you don't have the part #, go to www.bikebandit.com, look up the part and compare BB with Ronayers.

I hope this helps. Good luck.
 
Re: Clutch Question...

Kay, the first thing I would do is disconnect both ends of the clutch cable and examine it carefully looking for broken strands of cable. Broken strands will sometimes break completely away and shed inside the cable housing, so check the cable diameter at each end also to see that the cable is the same thickness at both ends. You have a cable adjuster at the clutch housing end of the cable and another one at the handle bar clutch lever. Usually, the primary adjustment for taking out 90% of the slack is the adjuster at the clutch housing. Once that is done, turn the adjustment screw/barrel at the handlebar grip until there is no gap between the clutch lever and its stop/housing. Then back it off until you have about 1/16" of gap/freeplay between the housing and clutch lever at the handlebar. Pull the clutch lever in a couple times, release it and then recheck the gap.
You should still have the little bit of freeplay. The rear wheel spinning slightly is normal due to properties of fluid dynamics and transfer of motion/friction,,,blah, blah blah. :-) :-) With the bike on the centerstand, you should be able to stop the rear wheel from turning by scuffing the sole of your sneaker on it. (I can stop the rear wheel from turning on my 1150 with my bare palm quite easily)

On reason a clutch will drag excessively is a history of a leaking fuel petcock and having continuous amounts of gas in the crankcase oil.
That will cause a clutch to grab and stick at low rpm and slip at high power/high rpm.

Have you any idea how many miles are on the bike? Usually, unless the bike has been run out of oil or severly abused, clutch parts are rarely damaged. At worst, you will need to replace the fiber disks. Dont worry about it. It is no more difficult than changing a tail light bulb. If you find you need to do that, yo will be shocked at how easy it is.

I get Vesrah clutch lining kits from cycle recycle at
http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/Index_Main_Frame.htm
Clutch linings are under "engine parts". They ship priority mail and I usually get an order in 3 to 4 days. I have been dealing with these people for years and they are great, much quicker than Dennis Kirk or Bike Bandit and they actually do answer their phone and are knowledgable if you need to talk to someone about a special order or requirements.
(They carry clutch cables too) :-)

All you will need for tools to replace clutch linings is a couple wrenches and a ratchet with a couple sockets. If you hold your hands in the same position for each clutch bolt and use the same grip and same two fingers to tighten and do it in a repetitive pattern, you can do it reliably without a torque wrench. I have been doing it so for years with never a problem. :-) About 99% of the time, I can remove a clutch housing without tearing the gasket, so you can do it too.

Earl


ladykatie said:
When I started my bike yesterday, I noticed that something is not totally right with the clutch lever. Even when I have it all the way pressed, it's not disengaging all the way, hence, the motor drags when you try to start in gear. In neutral, it's fine. Would this be just a simple adjustment to the cable or something? I am hoping, it's an easy fix. I'd hate to have to get into the clutch bigtime, since I've never worked on a bike before. There's a big difference between putting a shift kit in an automatic car tranny and the bike. Scary. :cry:
Click to expand...
 
About 99% of the time, I can remove a clutch housing without tearing the gasket, so you can do it too.
Click to expand...
I don't know about the torque wrench thing, but you must be dam good if you can measure torque in your fingers. Since I was new at it I played it safe.
I don't know about your model, but Suzuki recommends gasket cement in two places on the housing, something about preventing an oil leak. When I removed the cover, the gasket was brittle and stuck to the housing where the cement was applied. How do you get the cover off with out tearing the gasket? I'm putting in HD springs this winter and would like to avoid that problem.
 
I try to never use any kind of gasket cement. If I must, I apply the minimum amount I can make do with and only put it on on side of the gasket. If the stuff oozes out of a seam, it has to go somewhere and that will be into the oil supply. I dont need any gasket cement in my oil galleys. Usually, if I need a way of holding a gasket in place as I mate two surfaces together, I smear a thin film of grease on the surface to hold the gasket in place while I fit it. Grease will also allow you to move the gasket if something isnt quite lined up as it should be. For a clutch housing, after removing the outer bolts on the engine, I wiggle the case gently with my hands to break it loose. When I have a 1/16" gap anywhere on the seam. I check to see if there are any places the gasket is sticking. If there are, I use a piece of plastic from a margarine lid as a "knife". Cut a strip of plastic and on the "blade edge" slice the plastic on an angle to get an edge. You can work a gasket loose without destroying it or gouging the aluminum surface. I never have a problem on a gasket I have installed previously without cement.

Unless, you have engine modifications that require heavy duty clutch springs, I would advise against them. I doubt you will find the increased tension comfortable or enjoyable and there is really no need.

For torque, if you set practice bolts with a torque wrench and then tighten them slightly by hand, you develop a feel and can be pretty accurate.
The trick is to use the right size wrench or ratchet. It is very easy to learn to feel 5-7 ft lbs of torque with a 1/4" drive 4" long ratchet and two fingers.
It is impossible to feel 5-7 ft lbs of torque if you have a 3 ft breaker bar and are using two hands. You must also use the same grip, finger/hand placement and tightening angle. It isnt difficult. With a little practice, a lot of things can be done without a torque wrench. I think a mistake a lot of do it yourselfers make is to use too much of a tool/wrench which results in not having any feel/feedback from what is being tightened.

Earl


Mister T said:
About 99% of the time, I can remove a clutch housing without tearing the gasket, so you can do it too.
Click to expand...
I don't know about the torque wrench thing, but you must be dam good if you can measure torque in your fingers. Since I was new at it I played it safe.
I don't know about your model, but Suzuki recommends gasket cement in two places on the housing, something about preventing an oil leak. When I removed the cover, the gasket was brittle and stuck to the housing where the cement was applied. How do you get the cover off with out tearing the gasket? I'm putting in HD springs this winter and would like to avoid that problem.
Click to expand...
 
I had a problem with clutch slippage a while back, and took a tip from an old bike mechanic. A sparkplug washer on each spring solved the problem, without adding much additional clutch pull effort. I didn't want to hunt around for a gasket, so I cleaned up the mating surfaces, and some permatex high temp silicone (copper color) worked fine. That was almost 2 years and many miles ago. No leaks, no slippage.
 
opiewontaylor said:
Not sure how much drag you're talking about. Japanese wet clutch bikes always have some drag. Some drag is normal, excessive drag can usually be adjusted out.
Click to expand...

Okay!!! I feel much better now. I didn't understand that it was a normal thing. It doesn't seem to be excessive, but the bike was cold when started, so that would explain why I hadn't noticed this before. It had been very cold for the last few weeks. I haven't noticed any slippage. I almost feel dumb now, knowing that what I thought could be a problem was just the nature of the beast!! :lol:
 
knelson said:
I would make sure the free play in the cable is adjusted properly. Then I'd check to make sure the some of the wires in the cable were not borken letting the cable stretch too much.
Click to expand...

I will check on the condition of the cable also, just to rule out that, but I think I just haven't started the bike when really cold before, so it's probably just normal drag I experienced with a really cold bike.
 
Mister T said:
I had never done anything like this ever, but I learned a few things along the way, mostly from the folks on this site.
1. A torque wrench is a must.
2. If the fiber disks are close to the allowable limit, figure on changing them. It's roughly 135.00 at Suzuki.
3. Check for scoring on the clutch hub basket(where the disks tabs fit in the hub basket) My bike had 50K on it and this was not a problem.
4. Replace with new the bolts that secure the clutch springs. (mine snapped off, required me to drill them out)
5. Pay close attention to the direction of the steel disks, the teeth have a smooth and sharp edge, they all must go back in the same way.
6. Buy a new gasket for the clutch cover.
7. If you can change the oil in a car, you can replace the clutch, it's messy, but not a big deal.
8. Ron Ayers has the best price on OEM parts, if you don't have the part #, go to www.bikebandit.com, look up the part and compare BB with Ronayers.

I hope this helps. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Mr T, thanks for all the tips! I think I am going to wait for warmer weather before I start to worry. If it seems like there is a problem then, I will follow the suggestions, but it's probably just the cold and me being unfamiliar with the bike in cold weather. I've only started it in warm weather before.
 
Re: Clutch Question...

earlfor said:
Kay, the first thing I would do is disconnect both ends of the clutch cable and examine it carefully looking for broken strands of cable. Broken strands will sometimes break completely away and shed inside the cable housing, so check the cable diameter at each end also to see that the cable is the same thickness at both ends. You have a cable adjuster at the clutch housing end of the cable and another one at the handle bar clutch lever. Usually, the primary adjustment for taking out 90% of the slack is the adjuster at the clutch housing. Once that is done, turn the adjustment screw/barrel at the handlebar grip until there is no gap between the clutch lever and its stop/housing. Then back it off until you have about 1/16" of gap/freeplay between the housing and clutch lever at the handlebar. Pull the clutch lever in a couple times, release it and then recheck the gap.
You should still have the little bit of freeplay. The rear wheel spinning slightly is normal due to properties of fluid dynamics and transfer of motion/friction,,,blah, blah blah. :-) :-) With the bike on the centerstand, you should be able to stop the rear wheel from turning by scuffing the sole of your sneaker on it. (I can stop the rear wheel from turning on my 1150 with my bare palm quite easily)

On reason a clutch will drag excessively is a history of a leaking fuel petcock and having continuous amounts of gas in the crankcase oil.
That will cause a clutch to grab and stick at low rpm and slip at high power/high rpm.

Have you any idea how many miles are on the bike? Usually, unless the bike has been run out of oil or severly abused, clutch parts are rarely damaged. At worst, you will need to replace the fiber disks. Dont worry about it. It is no more difficult than changing a tail light bulb. If you find you need to do that, yo will be shocked at how easy it is.

I get Vesrah clutch lining kits from cycle recycle at
http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/Index_Main_Frame.htm
Clutch linings are under "engine parts". They ship priority mail and I usually get an order in 3 to 4 days. I have been dealing with these people for years and they are great, much quicker than Dennis Kirk or Bike Bandit and they actually do answer their phone and are knowledgable if you need to talk to someone about a special order or requirements.
(They carry clutch cables too) :-)

All you will need for tools to replace clutch linings is a couple wrenches and a ratchet with a couple sockets. If you hold your hands in the same position for each clutch bolt and use the same grip and same two fingers to tighten and do it in a repetitive pattern, you can do it reliably without a torque wrench. I have been doing it so for years with never a problem. :-) About 99% of the time, I can remove a clutch housing without tearing the gasket, so you can do it too.
Click to expand...

Earl,
Thank you too. I am definitely going to check the cable ends. In fact, I printed these posts out so I can use them when I do check it, when it's a little warmer. You guys are all the greatest!!! I am so glad you are all out there to answer my questions!!!
 
Just remember the most important mechanical tip of all..if it ain't broke..don't fix it :)
 
opiewontaylor said:
Just remember the most important mechanical tip of all..if it ain't broke..don't fix it :)
Click to expand...

I certainly will!!!! Thanks again!
 
Working onthe clutch is easier that installing a shift kit. Make sure to use a 10-40 oil 20-50 will make the clutch drag alot when the bike is cold
 
If you feel that 10w40 isnt quite thick enough for the hotter climates then try using 15w40 instead I've used this in New Mexico for quite awhile and still use in Oklahoma with no problems even when cold. :)
 
FYI :) Castrol makes Syntec 5W-50.That is what I'm using in a 82 Volks Rabbit diesel now.The temps have been to -25 deg F and the engine starts first try with no slow cranking.I think I'll try it in my bikes next time I chg the oil and see if the clutches still drag when cold.I am using Mobile 1 15W50 now.
 
Hopefully that won't be necessary just yet. We are supposed to get some warmer weather here this week, and I plan to take Suzi for a spin and see how she acts then. :D
 
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