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coil relay mod? gs 450

  • Thread starter Thread starter mrameswmartin
  • Start date Start date
M

mrameswmartin

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i attempted to put a relay mod in last night but didnt quite understand the process . i used the pdf from basscliffs site but wires and harnesses didnt seem to match up on my 81 450. has anyone done this on a 450? or maybe has a "how to" for the electrically ignorant such as myself?
 
I haven't looked at it myself as I was able to clean up my harness enough to get rid of most of the voltage drop, but on my '82 450E, both coils are fed from an orange/white wire and are grounded by the ignitor.

The orange white wire comes from the kill switch and start button, and connects to both coils and the ignitor.

I imagine you could splice into this one anwhere that seems appropriate and use it to turn a relay on instead.

It seems the equivalent wire on yours should be orange/white if it's a L or T, otherwise a yellow/white. That's what the Clymer tells me anyways...
 
so the ignitor only grounds the coils? i thought it was like a capacitor..how exactly does it work?
 
mrameswmartin said:
so the ignitor only grounds the coils? i thought it was like a capacitor..how exactly does it work?
Click to expand...
If you understand the concept of how the coils produce the sparks when points open, stopping the flow of current through the coils, it is very easy to just tell you that the ignitor is "electronic points". There is nothing really magical in there, it's just a set of heavy-duty transistors (and the bits and pieces that make them work) that switch the current coming from the coils.

The "coil relay mod" assures full voltage and current to the coils, but is really only useful if your are getting considerably less to the coils right now. To see if you actually need the mod, measure the voltage at the orange/white wire at the coil, compare that with battery voltage. If there is more than a volt or so difference, you might benefit from the mod. You would actually be better off cleaning the connections in the harness between the battery and the coils. The mod only bypasses all those "bad" connections.

.
 
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Question on the coil relay mod. I attempted to do this yesterday as I was only getting 3-4v on each coil but once I installed everything how the directions say to do except for 1 thing, the grounding. I need to know if I must connect the ground wire for the relay to the main ground wire in the harness or if it can be connected to any ground.
 
Tenrilid said:
Question on the coil relay mod. I attempted to do this yesterday as I was only getting 3-4v on each coil but once I installed everything how the directions say to do except for 1 thing, the grounding. I need to know if I must connect the ground wire for the relay to the main ground wire in the harness or if it can be connected to any ground.
Click to expand...

Any ground should do. The ground is only for the relay to operate.

You were only getting 3-4V at the coils? :eek: Or are you talking a 3-4V drop from bike voltage? I can't imagine a bike possible starting with only 4V at the coils! Is your battery health OK? Sounds like you need to do some thorough wiring cleaning. I'm not sure 3-4V could operate a relay!
 
well, the bike still wont start and I was only getting 3-4v at the coils. the battery showed a strong 12v so I know it's not the battery. I have the feeling I may have been doing the coil reading wrong though.
 
Are you sure you're not talking 3-4 OHMS at the coil? That would be normal. For the voltage, set your DMM to DC 20V range (probably) and use the probe to pierce the two wires at the coils while it's connected, bike on, ignition on, and get the reading between them.

3-4V is way low. WAY low. The igniter usually runs off of the same switched B+ that the coils do, not sure 3-4V could get any love from that even if you fixed up the coils using the relay. Could be a big drain or more likely some really bad connections.
 
I do mean volts so it seems like I will need to check the readings at the ignitor. the ignitor should be good as I got it from ebay and the auction stated the bike was running prior to removal.

Let me also check, the positive line going to the coils should show a reading w/out having to crank the engine right? Just as long as the ignition is on?
 
Yes, the coils always get B+ with the ignition on, no need to crank or have it running. The GROUND is what the igniter pulls to create the spark. Don't leave the coils energized without the motor running any longer than you need to.
 
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ok, this may make me sound like a tard but what's B+? I'm assuming Battery Positive power but want to clarify.
 
Just thought of something. I picked up a 30a inline fuse for my coil relay mod, is that too large of a fuse to use?
 
That probably is too large for the wire you're using - 10A should be fine (it was stock). However, that's not going to cause your bike to not run. Do you know what's going on? Is your relay clicking when you turn on the ignition?
 
Well, I hadn't noticed if it clicked when I turned on the ignition but I did noticed it clicked when I was disconnecting/reconnecting the battery.

At first I thought it was something arcing from a bad connection so it freaked me out at first.
 
Tenrilid said:
Well, I hadn't noticed if it clicked when I turned on the ignition but I did noticed it clicked when I was disconnecting/reconnecting the battery.

At first I thought it was something arcing from a bad connection so it freaked me out at first.
Click to expand...

Did you have the ignition on when you are connecting/disconnecting the battery? Otherwise it should not be clicking when you hook those up. It should click when you turn the ignition on and off.

Can you tell us what the numbers are on each of the relay connectors? We can then tell where each should go.

If it is a basic 4 wire relay:
#30 should go directly to battery positive (preferably on battery terminal, with 10 or 15amp fuse inline)
#85 should go to Ground (anywhere on frame)
#86 should go to the orange/white wire that currently goes to the coils
#87 should go to the coils where the orange/white goes into them.

With this wiring, you should have the same voltage at #30 that you do at the battery. When you turn on the key, that same voltage should be present on #87. At this point #86 should also be showing a voltage, maybe not as much, but should still be ~10V or higher depending on how good of shape the wiring is.
 
ferguson30 said:
Did you have the ignition on when you are connecting/disconnecting the battery? Otherwise it should not be clicking when you hook those up. It should click when you turn the ignition on and off.

Can you tell us what the numbers are on each of the relay connectors? We can then tell where each should go.

If it is a basic 4 wire relay:
#30 should go directly to battery positive (preferably on battery terminal, with 10 or 15amp fuse inline)
#85 should go to Ground (anywhere on frame)
#86 should go to the orange/white wire that currently goes to the coils
#87 should go to the coils where the orange/white goes into them.

With this wiring, you should have the same voltage at #30 that you do at the battery. When you turn on the key, that same voltage should be present on #87. At this point #86 should also be showing a voltage, maybe not as much, but should still be ~10V or higher depending on how good of shape the wiring is.
Click to expand...


Well, the ignition was not on when I heard the clicking. I was just disconnecting the battery and heard it. I am pretty sure I double checked all the connections and connected them where they were supposed to go but I will check again this evening. Now, I did use a 30a inline fuse so would you suggest I put a 10 or 15a fuse in it's place on the inline holder?

Also, I connected the fuse line directly to the + connection on the fuse box for now.
 
Tenrilid said:
Well, the ignition was not on when I heard the clicking. I was just disconnecting the battery and heard it. I am pretty sure I double checked all the connections and connected them where they were supposed to go but I will check again this evening. Now, I did use a 30a inline fuse so would you suggest I put a 10 or 15a fuse in it's place on the inline holder?

Also, I connected the fuse line directly to the + connection on the fuse box for now.
Click to expand...

Ideally you'd put in a 10a fuse in, I believe thats what I have in mine now with no problems. The 30a will work for testing purposes, but the fuse won't blow if something goes wrong as easy, which isn't good.

If it clicks with the ignition off, and disconnecting/reconnecting the battery, I'd bet you have #30 and #86 swapped.
 
Oh, I'll make sure to check my connections and I'll pick up a 10a fuse to pop in.
 
the coil relay pdf I've seen seems to cover the bigger bikes. The wiring on the 450 is a bit more simple. On the 850 I used to have, there were about 5 or six different fuses, but on the 450, there's only one main fuse, that's it. I'd just like to set up my 12v accessory so that it turns off with the ignition, but I haven't had time to play with it. That may have to wait until the riding season is over.
 
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