CORRECTION for 5/8 offset not needed

[Guest]

well this is the part I hate.....

I was right the first time.

turns out you do have to use a 5/8 offset sprocket for the stock swingarm and the bandit arm for the rear wheel to be lined up with the front. You see the bandit uses a .650" spacer but the swingarm is offset in the frame 4mm which brings us back to .490" spacer and a 5/8 offset front.

I compared the gsxr placement with a stock wheel this time to see exactly where in the swingarm the stock wheel sits. It sits dead center in the stock swingarm.

My previous measuring technique with the string was apparently inaccurate. I re-measured using a straight edge across the rim face extending to the front of the swingarm on both sides with both spacers and the .490" was the centered wheel.

I am very sorry for any probs this may have caused anyone.

I am a glowing example of why its so important to do your own measuring and calculating. I try to post what I got and how so others can confirm or contest the findings.

Man it really sucks to be wrong again.

All right... let me have it.. I deserve it.

 

[TheCafeKid]

well this is the part I hate.....

I was right the first time.

turns out you do have to use a 5/8 offset sprocket for the stock swingarm and the bandit arm for the rear wheel to be lined up with the front. You see the bandit uses a .650" spacer but the swingarm is offset in the frame 4mm which brings us back to .490" spacer and a 5/8 offset front.

I compared the gsxr placement with a stock wheel this time to see exactly where in the swingarm the stock wheel sits. It sits dead center in the stock swingarm.

My previous measuring technique with the string was apparently inaccurate. I re-measured using a straight edge across the rim face extending to the front of the swingarm on both sides with both spacers and the .490" was the centered wheel.

I am very sorry for any probs this may have caused anyone.

I am a glowing example of why its so important to do your own measuring and calculating. I try to post what I got and how so others can confirm or contest the findings.

Man it really sucks to be wrong again.

All right... let me have it.. I deserve it.

Dude...you jerk. Now my whole project is RUINED!!

HEHEHEH Just kidding man. At least you have the balls to admit it, and that is rare these days. So your previous findings were completely wrong? Can i still use the 13mm offset on MY project like Kichigai did or will that not work??

 

[Guest]

Well dude, its like this.

I'm not even sure my name is Rob anymore.

In my HUMBLE opinion which is worth mud now. His rear wheel is not aligned with the front wheel. That may or may not effect his handling.

What my findings has reveiled is centering in the swingarm isn't critical since Suzuki offsets the wheel in the bandit arm.

So, 520 is the way to go with 5/8 offset.

Here is a pic of J.W. setup we just did.

 

[SteveA]

Rob,
When we did mine we got the bandit arm in the frame then put the wheel without spacers on the wheel spindle, then we ran a string from the headstock and centralised the wheel and made spacers to suit. This was using the 6" Dymag which uses a different sprocket carrier to the bandit so I don't think any of my measurements would be of any use to anyone.

 

[Guest]

looks great man. 6" you say.... I will be trying to stuff one in myself this winter. what did you end up with for a right hand spacer? adn what kind of frame clearance did you get if any?

I will have a similar prob with my busa wheel as it uses a diff carrier too

 

[SteveA]

No frame clearance at all we had to rework the frame, can't remember the spacer size there must be some pics somewhere which I'll try and find. I can recall the bandit caliper hanger had to have some meat taken off the outside.

The inside was webbed to add strength and then finished up looking like this

 

[SteveA]

This is how it looks from the side no sings of rework.

 

[Guest]

you could use a 91/92 hanger. its much narrower and the same offset

Man, you have hogged out a lotta meat Steve.. nice rear sets too

 

[SteveA]

Yeah we did take a fair bit out thats why we webbed the inside.

 

[Guest]

did ya think about hoggin out a piece of plate?

 

[SteveA]

The wheels I had were originally made for a GSXR1000K1/K2 so they were very wide around the hub area. so the carrier was machined down and some low profile bolts were used to mount the sprocket which eventually gave us the clearance we needed, took some working out but we got there in the end.

 

[SteveA]

did ya think about hoggin out a piece of plate?

How d'ya mean?

 

[Guest]

How d'ya mean?

I was just thinking instead of the webbing (which is lighter) using a piece of plate as thick as the down tube and milling out the chain groove.

 

[SteveA]

No didn't think about that, I guess it would have been an option but we didn't have easy access to a milling machine.

 

[Guest]

What you did looks real good Steve.

I may be doing that myself this winter

Steve, when you shaved the carrier did you shave the inner spacer too or just the sprocket face?

 

[posplayr]

Rob Good Work

Rob Good Work

I know you are just trying to sort out all of the variations and have the bravery to do that in an open forum. Keep it up you are demonstrating the persistence that makes it clear to we you will figure it out.

The mental discipline and analytical ability to rethink and reject your prior conclusions and precepts is the essential ingredient to unbounded learning and growth and I commend that. Thats why I'm really glad I'm getting my arm and sprocket from you.
Thanks again.
Jim

 

[SteveA]

Rob,
The dymag system allowed us to shave a bit off of both sides of the carrier so that meant we also needed to take some off the spacer held behind the it.
I also used a renthal 530 sprocket in reverse, they have a slightly scooped front face and by reversing it the chain moved toward the wheel by another mil.

 

[Mark M]

In my HUMBLE opinion which is worth mud now. His rear wheel is not aligned with the front wheel. That may or may not effect his handling.

Katman, your opinion is worth gold because you have actually done all this instead of just thinking about it. There is no substitute for firsthand experience.

On the wheel offset affecting the handling, yes it will. I bet it is unoticeable, though. There are a fair number of production bikes that do not have the wheels lined up right from the factory. The old Honda Hawk was reportedly 1/4" or more out of line and it enjoyed a reuptation as an excellent handling bike. All the offset really does is make the bike slightly easier to lean in one direction than the other. NBD in the big picture...

Don't stop with the great work and updates, I may need your help for a GSXR swap one of these winters.

Mark

 

[tone]

Ok guys
Well done to rob for addmitting a small mistake (we all make them) & this sort of problem is just what i tried to convey in previous posts on the matter

ive done a dozen or so of these mods so if you will endulge me a little while i'll explain how i arrived at my way of doing it & the reasons for every move, hopefully this will help someone in the future

The first one i did many years ago was done on my jig which makes working everything out a little easier, but i no longer bother with that as its very time consuming for no real gain

The process.......
select swingarm & fit it central to the frame at the pivot point EG 220mm frame & 200mm swingarm will need 10mm (or just under) top hat spacers each side, forget the swingarm ofsett at this point, they vary by up to a couple of mm even on arms from the same year & model, no later arms will be the same as an early gs anyway

make up the required shock & linkage mounts, or tack weld on twin shock mounts if required & fit the arm as normal

Fit your wheel without spacers & the spindle all the way forward in the slots & align it with the front, bits of string, measuring off the arm or frame are useless, these frames are not straight from the factory & the arm was never supposed to be there, alignment by running a straight edge down from the rear wheel to the front & measureing in to the front wheel in 2 places (to make sure the front wheel is straight)....... repeat on the other side of the bike

You should now have 2 measurements EG on the lhs of the bike 30mm & on the rhs 20mm (in to the front rim) this means the rear wheel needs to move to the left by half of the differance, in this example 5mm

Now you can measure up your spacers, for the brake side its easier to use the brake hanger that goes with the wheel as the ofsett here is already right & they are a bit of a swine to work out accurately

Fit some temp wheel spacers of the correct size, a bit of tube cut accurately will do

thats your wheels in alignment which always has to be the starting point

notice ive not put any specific dimensions as EVERYTHING can vary from bike to bike & arm to arm even given parts of the same year & model they WILL vary, 1mm of misalignment can be 1 INCH over the length of a bike :-k

coffee time then more to follow on chain alignment
tone

 

[tone]

Round 2

Arm is in, wheels are in & fixed solidly, now is the time to double check, tripple check if you need to that you wheels are actually where they should be

Ok i'll presume you did a good job there so i'll look at chains ........

I always aim to get the chain to run dead centre of the available space between frame & tyre, this is where you will find out if you need to trim the inner part of your frame or not & also wether twinshocks will catch the chain at all, i can cover that if needed later but basically its exactly what steve has done above

The wheel is straight in the arm so you can clamp a strong straight edge to the rear sprocket pointing towards the front one & measure the offset needed, on most conversions that ive done (but not all) 12mm is enough to get the chain central in the available space
You can either buy a custom sprocket, make one or space the stock sprocket out by the extra few mm needed

Now the front is where it should be you can you can either change the sprocket carrier for a narrower one (if you are very lucky) or machine a few mm of the face of the carrier to get perfect alignment

In SOME cases it is easier to have the chain running slightly closer to the tyre or the frame than to put it central to the available space, this does happen quite regularly & is not a problem but not what i aim for, just remember the chain will move across the sprockets by up to a mm or so if tight & slap slightly (side to side) when loose

If everything checks out you can now make up all your correct spacers

I will point out that even though i am confidant in my ability to measure accurately i did re-check the the first couple of conversions i did off the jig later during the rebuilds by taking a day off & actually putting them on the jig & double checking the first was 1mm out in wheel alignment & the second .5 of a mm which is way better than stock (3 to 5mm on some bikes)

Its impossable to give exact measurements on any of this as there are too many variables, I do have some measurements from previous projects which i keep for referance (gets me closebut not perfect) but its far better to measure everything up for yourself so i wont post them here

Questions, mickey taking & comments welcome
cheers tone