• Required reading for all forum users!!!

    Welcome!
    Register to access the full functionality of the GSResources forum. Until you register and activate your account you will not have full forum access, nor will you be able to post or reply to messages.

    A note to new registrants...
    All new forum registrations must be activated via email before you have full access to the forum.

    A Special Note about Email accounts!
    DO NOT SIGN UP USING hotmail, outlook, gmx, sbcglobal, att, bellsouth or email.com. They delete our forum signup emails.

    A note to old forum members...
    I receive numerous requests from people who can no longer log in because their accounts were deleted. As mentioned in the forum FAQ, user accounts are deleted if you haven't logged in for the past 6 months. If you can't log in, then create a new forum account. If you don't get an error message, then check your email account for an activation message. If you get a message stating that the email address is already in use, then your account still exists so follow the instructions in the forum FAQ for resetting your password.

    Have you forgotten your password or have a new email address? Then read the forum FAQ for details on how to reset it.

    Any email requests for "can't log in anymore" problems or "lost my password" problems will be deleted. Read the forum FAQ and follow the instructions there - that's what we have one for...

  • Returning Visitors

    If you are a returning visitor who never received your confirmation email, then odds are your email provider is blockinig emails from our server. The only thing that can be done to get around this is you will have to try creating another forum account using an email address from another domain.

    If you are a returning visitor to the forum and can't log in using your old forum name and password but used to be able to then chances are your account is deleted. Purges of the databases are done regularly. You will have to create a new forum account and you should be all set.

Countersteering?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Big Al in NY
  • Start date Start date
B

Big Al in NY

Guest
Q: What is it?

A: It's turning the bars in the opposite direction of the direction you want to turn/lean. Simple as that. Turn left to go right! (and vice versa) It's not hanging off the bike or turning into a slide. You don't need to know why it works

Example: Your riding on a straight away next to the white line. Keeping your body straight and using only your arms apply the slightest of pressure to the bars as if turning right. The bike will immediately start leaning to the left and moving accross the lane. When you get to where you want in the lane stop applying pressure/turning bars, correct with left pressure as needed. How much pressure(turning) you use will determine how fast things happenand how long you apply it will detirmed how far it leans over. Baby steps please.

Mostly you'll here. Press the side of the bars you want to turn to forward. Press right to go right. Press left to go left. I guess it's suppose to be easier to remember this way but I like teaching the turning left to go right because in fact that's what they are both doing but if it's in the back of your head that all you need to do is turn them, you can do that by any means of pushing/pulling and from any angle. Alot of stuff happens when day dreaming and you might just be out of the optimum "press" position.

It won't take long before you realize how much control you have over putting your bike where you want it in your lane at anytime and as fast as you want it there. And once you can turn in a straight away turning in a turn is nothing. Just keep practicing it until it's a reaction.

If you've ever heard someone say they went into the corner too fast and the bike wouldn't turn so they went straight doesn't know what to do when the bike won't do what they want it to. Countersteering was their answer and it's been around since the wright brothers(google).

I hope that all makes sense. I kept it simple as it truely is. You don't need to master countersteering to survive on the street but you do need to use it. It's how a motorcycle turns. No ifs, ands or buts.

My story: I grew up on mini bikes and such but never wanted a road bike after I borrowed my friends yamaha 175 enduro when I was 15. I took it down the road and did great until the bike wouldn't lean for me and I wasn't making my sweeping left hand corner. The harder I tried to turn the bars left the worse it got. The bike slowed in the grass and turned eventually. About 20 years later I'm talking with a bud at work about it and he explains "countersteering" to me. I trusted him (and google) and tried it on his dr350. It all made sense after that. Trying to turn left to go left was all wrong. On a bike you turn the bars right to go left. That was in the year 2000 and I've put over 100,000 miles on since. I preach countersteering to everyone now. It's amazing how many don't know about it (and are riding).

Big Al
 
Last edited:
all true mate, just watch the super slomo shots of GPriders etc when cornering. they are going around a right hander and their front wheel is pointing left.
centrifugal and gyroscopic force has a lot to do with it as well.
that is the reason for tyre wear as well, a predominantly right handed circuit will shag your front tyre on the right hand side quicker because when you are taking fast right handers your front wheel is trying to go left, so you are effectively scrubbing the rubber off that side if the tyre.
its difficult to get your head round it but its true, and it works!
 
all true mate, just watch the super slomo shots of GPriders etc when cornering. they are going around a right hander and their front wheel is pointing left.
centrifugal and gyroscopic force has a lot to do with it as well.

Thanks for the response but, nope, not what I am talking about. I don't think the wright brothers slid around a corner when they discovered it, lol.

I'm talking about saving lives right on the streets doing the speed limits.

Big Al
 
I still can't see how anyone gets past their first bicycle ride without knowing this.
 
I still can't see how anyone gets past their first bicycle ride without knowing this.

Yah, me too. It's just how two-wheeled vehicles work, and I have never understood the need to explain it, let alone argue about it as I have seen in the past.
 
I still can't see how anyone gets past their first bicycle ride without knowing this.


I don't think it is so obvious and it certainly is counterintuitive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering#The_Wright_Brothers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Wright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Wright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Wright


I cant find a certain link I was looking for but the two below are nice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Inoutrak.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Perfectcornerbike.gif


If i had to describe the counter steer as simple as possible:

From a upright and vertical position by turning the front wheel to the outside of a turn (away from the intended turn), the motorcycle tends to do a low side lay down in the direction of the turn. The counter steering handlebar pressure creates a lay down force which is counteracted by the centrifugal force of the turn which keeps the bike falling completely over. As is normal for a car as well, the rear tire is following a tighter radius turn than the front tire.

Some bikes feel more neutral after laying over and others need a higher bar pressure to enter , hold or exit the turn but the above concepts generally apply to all bikes when there is significant speed and centrifugal force is created in the turns (i.e. you need to lean).

The pictures above help to illustrate.
 
i can just invisage loads of posts now from people trashing their bikes after going into corners and turning their handlebars the wrong way on purpose just trying out the theory lol
 
I noticed while test-driving a GS 850 the feel of the response to counter-steering was quite different from my 1100GL with the buckhorn bars. I expected the 850 to be more responsive but it felt less responsive to a counter-steer. Probably my imagination because I wasn't used to it. I realize the buckhorns are not the most functional piece of equipment in the world.
 
I noticed while test-driving a GS 850 the feel of the response to counter-steering was quite different from my 1100GL with the buckhorn bars. I expected the 850 to be more responsive but it felt less responsive to a counter-steer. Probably my imagination because I wasn't used to it. I realize the buckhorns are not the most functional piece of equipment in the world.
a shaft drive will have a whole different effect on the matter, what with drive torque affecting the rear end during cornering
 
Thanks for the response but, nope, not what I am talking about. I don't think the wright brothers slid around a corner when they discovered it, lol.

I'm talking about saving lives right on the streets doing the speed limits.

Big Al
Bull****.

You're a Gummint Agent :D

You really seriously think 60 year old guys riding 30 year old machinery don't know how to steer the fukken thing ????

Yer nukken Fuzt :D

Troll.
 
i can just invisage loads of posts now from people trashing their bikes after going into corners and turning their handlebars the wrong way on purpose just trying out the theory lol
If you can turn your bars at speed you're a better man than I.
 
Q: ........
............
A: It's turning the bars in the opposite direction of the direction you want to turn/lean. ................
...............
Big Al

Al,

Somewhat like others have said, I would say "push right to go right, push left to go left". Dont really turn bars. Just push against the bar a little bit, not really enough to turn bars.

Yes, it is intersting how some people dont really know abouyt this but they do it anyway without knowing.
But then again ask someone how they turn when they are running or walking, and they probably cant tell you that either.

THink of this; when a one year old baby learns to walk, do you think he really knows how he is doing that? ANd did he ever figure it out? WHen that same kid learns to ride a bycycle at age 5, do you really think he understands it all? SOmehow the brain learns what to do, but does the person really understand it? And then the same, at age 20 when a person thinks he learns to ride motorcycle ... ... ... ...
 
a shaft drive will have a whole different effect on the matter, what with drive torque affecting the rear end during cornering
Not so. A shaft-drive bike feels just the same when you press on the handgrips to go around corners.

The only difference due to the shaft is whether the rear rises or falls when you get on/off the throttle, and the GS does not do that very much, either.

.
 
I noticed while test-driving a GS 850 the feel of the response to counter-steering was quite different from my 1100GL with the buckhorn bars. I expected the 850 to be more responsive but it felt less responsive to a counter-steer. Probably my imagination because I wasn't used to it. I realize the buckhorns are not the most functional piece of equipment in the world.

Tire profiles, pressure, suspension condition/preload... Many things can affect how quickly a bike turns in.

BTW, David Hough'S excellent book Proficient Motorcycling has a very good description of countersteering and how to wrap your head around it, for those who don't just get it. Everybody needs to read that book or something like it anyhow.
 
Do any of you know at what speed counter steer begins to work??? Does it begin at the same speed on all 2 wheeled vehicles??? It seems to be about 18 or 19 mph on most motorcycles. Kids learning to ride bicycles won't experience counter steer, because they probably won't go fast enough for counter steer to be used. I've always wondered exactly where it starts.
 
Do any of you know at what speed counter steer begins to work??? Does it begin at the same speed on all 2 wheeled vehicles??? It seems to be about 18 or 19 mph on most motorcycles.

My MSF instructor told us we'd need to get up to at least 15-20 MPH to feel the effect, so that'd be my guess.
 
it will only come into effect at higher speeds. it is all down to gyroscopic and rotational forces. you will not experience it on a bicycle!
 
The problem with this subject is the word steering. To some it would indicate turning in the direction you want to go. Im sure many riders learned to drive before riding and as a driver, thats how its done. With a bike, youre not steering to turn the bike as much as youre steering to lean the bike to have that steer. I know its all semantics but the physics are as posplayr stated. Its not what you think about doing while doing it. Even children who just learn to ride a bike dont think about countersteering. They just do it. It becomes second nature, as it should. I think over thinking the action could cause more problems than not knowing how it works.
 
Back
Top