Countersteering?

[Agemax]

I don't understand the question. If you want to turn a motorcycle at speed you must use countersteering - there is no other way.

read your post 2 or 3 back mate. i think you got a bit muddled!

 

[reddirtrider]

Agreed, you wrote the opposite.

"I'd raise the percentage up on #1 and #2 to 100% since you cannot turn a motorcycle at speed with countersteering."

I bet you meant without countersteering.

I type too fast sometimes.

I've been stating throughout this post that you cannot turn a motorcycle at speed without countersteering. That's a 100% figure - you just can't do it.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Uhm...I rode dirt for years. You dont countersteer a dirt bike like you do a street bike. Try it, you'll end up with a face full of dirt. DRIFTING is a more applicable description IMO for dirt riding. I guess technicly, you kind of countersteer a dirt bike, but no where near the point you need to to ride a streetbike, agressively especially.

 

[reddirtrider]

Uhm...I rode dirt for years. You dont countersteer a dirt bike like you do a street bike. Try it, you'll end up with a face full of dirt. DRIFTING is a more applicable description IMO for dirt riding. I guess technicly, you kind of countersteer a dirt bike, but no where near the point you need to to ride a streetbike, agressively especially.

The 100% figure on turning a bike at speed using countersteering is on hard surfaces. The no BS bike that Keith Code built was a street bike, not a dirt bike, and his article was refering to riding on hard surfaces.

As you pointed out, riding dirt is another story. I've had street riders on the dirt for the first time and it's rather funny how slow and insecure they are. It's a whole different story there and not worth discussing in a countersteering thread other than generally agreeing with your post.

 

[tone]

I'd raise the percentage up on #1 and #2 to 100% since you cannot turn a motorcycle at speed with countersteering.

I would have been inclined to agree with you untill last year & put the figures for #1 & 2 at 100% apart from the fact that ive rode alongside a mate & actually watched him counter steer 1/4 of the way around an island at 30+mph

 

[reddirtrider]

I would have been inclined to agree with you untill last year & put the figures for #1 & 2 at 100% apart from the fact that ive rode alongside a mate & actually watched him counter steer 1/4 of the way around an island at 30+mph

I meant without, not with, and have corrected myself in later posts. Maybe I need to edit that so no one else comes to the wrong conclusion.

You cannot turn a motorcycle at speed WITHOUT couintersteering. Ok off to edit.

 

[Agemax]

I would have been inclined to agree with you untill last year & put the figures for #1 & 2 at 100% apart from the fact that ive rode alongside a mate & actually watched him counter steer 1/4 of the way around an island at 30+mph

counter steer or drift? cant see how you can see him make a slight adjustment to his bars, especially around an "island"

 

[reddirtrider]

Here's a brief biography on Kieth Code. What he says about countersteering is good enough for me.

Keith Code is a former motorcycle racer,[1] writer, and founder of the California Superbike School.[2] He has been called "arguably the best known and most successful on-track motorcycle instructor in the world".[3]
Code founded the California Superbike School in 1980. The school has taught numerous championship winning riders such as Wayne Rainey.[4] As of 2009, riders who have been trained either at his schools or by him personally have won 49 world and national racing championships. His teaching has been spread all over the world.[2] His California Superbike Schools have operated at over 90 tracks worldwide in 15 countries and have trained 150,000 riders.
In 2006 he was tasked by the United States Marine Corps to design a rider training program that would be effective in reducing serious motorcycle accidents among USMC riders. The program called Advanced Motorcycle Operator School is now considered the "gold Standard" of rider training by Marine safety personnel due to its graduates' extraordinary safety record over a four year period.[citation needed]
Mr. Code writes a monthly column in Motorcyclist magazine called Code Break.
Code has also opened a specialized school for racing techniques, called Code R.A.C.E.[5]
Code has pioneered and invented numerous rider training devices such as the No BS Bike which illustrates the necessity for counter-steering to be used; the Lean and Slide Bike Trainers that train not only good body positioning and visual skills but also allow riders to experience sliding the machine with much reduced possibility of crashing; and the Panic Braking Trainer that allows riders to experience front wheel lock up and learn how to recover from it.[6] He was the first to use on-board, over the shoulder video recordings for rider training.[citation needed]
The California Superbike School was the first rider training school to provide a step-by-step, performance rider training curriculum.[citation needed]
Code has written three books about sportsbike riding and racing techniques as well as a feature length DVD covering his first book, "A Twist of the Wrist". His works have been translated into numerous languages: Russian, German, Estonian, Greek, Spanish, Japanese, Polish and Dutch.

 

[tone]

counter steer or drift? cant see how you can see him make a slight adjustment to his bars, especially around an "island"

Definately counter steer i was leant over at the side of him with my eyes around a foot from his bars so well able to see the bars & wheel pointing to the left while the bike was turning right & well & truly leant over

 

[Sandy]

Here's a brief biography on Kieth Code. What he says about countersteering is good enough for me.

Keith Code is a former motorcycle racer,[1] writer, and founder of the California Superbike School.[2] He has been called "arguably the best known and most successful on-track motorcycle instructor in the world".[3]
Code founded the California Superbike School in 1980. The school has taught numerous championship winning riders such as Wayne Rainey.[4] As of 2009, riders who have been trained either at his schools or by him personally have won 49 world and national racing championships. His teaching has been spread all over the world.[2] His California Superbike Schools have operated at over 90 tracks worldwide in 15 countries and have trained 150,000 riders.
In 2006 he was tasked by the United States Marine Corps to design a rider training program that would be effective in reducing serious motorcycle accidents among USMC riders. The program called Advanced Motorcycle Operator School is now considered the "gold Standard" of rider training by Marine safety personnel due to its graduates' extraordinary safety record over a four year period.[citation needed]
Mr. Code writes a monthly column in Motorcyclist magazine called Code Break.
Code has also opened a specialized school for racing techniques, called Code R.A.C.E.[5]
Code has pioneered and invented numerous rider training devices such as the No BS Bike which illustrates the necessity for counter-steering to be used; the Lean and Slide Bike Trainers that train not only good body positioning and visual skills but also allow riders to experience sliding the machine with much reduced possibility of crashing; and the Panic Braking Trainer that allows riders to experience front wheel lock up and learn how to recover from it.[6] He was the first to use on-board, over the shoulder video recordings for rider training.[citation needed]
The California Superbike School was the first rider training school to provide a step-by-step, performance rider training curriculum.[citation needed]
Code has written three books about sportsbike riding and racing techniques as well as a feature length DVD covering his first book, "A Twist of the Wrist". His works have been translated into numerous languages: Russian, German, Estonian, Greek, Spanish, Japanese, Polish and Dutch.

I took his course back in 1985 on the old Laguna track configuration. I got lucky that day and actually had him as the instructor. Best money I ever spent.

 

[reddirtrider]

Definately counter steer i was leant over at the side of him with my eyes around a foot from his bars so well able to see the bars & wheel pointing to the left while the bike was turning right & well & truly leant over

If the wheel was pointing left the bike will go to the left. The bike will go in the direction that the front wheel points. Now, if you're on a slipperey surface, that may not be immediate, but it will go that way.

 

[reddirtrider]

I took his course back in 1985 on the old Laguna track configuration. I got lucky that and actually had him as the instructor. Best money I ever spent.

I'd love to attend one of his classes. Unfortunately I have too many financial and time obligations to do it right now.

 

[Sandy]

I'd love to attend one of his classes. Unfortunately I have too many financial and time obligations to do it right now.

I don't remember what I paid back then but it was very reasonable considering they supplied track prepped bikes, helmets, leathers, everything. The courses weren't popular back then as they are now and think due to demand the prices have gone up far more than inflation would account for.

 

[Big Al in NY]

Back to the street..... here's my deer story...

I was leading a small group and had just made a turn(no pun intended) to another road and gave a look/see in my left mirror to make sure everyone was behind me, yep 4 bikes there. I looked back at the road ahead and there was a deer already landing from it's jump over the gaurd rail on my right. I was going about 40mph and it's head was just about in front of my tire when I yanked and I mean yanked those handlebars to the right instantly leaning the bike over to left at a 45 degree angle. That 45 degree angle made my custom skull highway peg(dagger handle) stick up and out enough that when my tire luckily cleared it's head the highway peg cut it's leg almost off while caving in it's chest and spinning it down the right side of the bike(83 v65 magna). I was back upright with barely a bobble and pretty much stayed in the same place in the lane. I rode a couple hundred feet then decided I'd stop and check if my aching foot was still there. Was chatting with buds for 10 minutes before I saw the deer still on the side of the road. They were like, yeah, it looked dead already while spinning back at rodman(who just barely missed it).

So there you go, how countersteering killed a deer!

Big Al

P.S. While I can't say that I wasn't lucky that day I will say "Chance favors the prepared mind"

P.S.S. Good read (minus the dirt biking, gp (cough, cough, lol)). I beg anyone who's not 100% sure of what the hell we are talking about to ask. It's that important. Be in control!

 

[mighty13d]

One of the guys who used to ride with a group my friends used to try to FIGHT the counter-steering while cornering... It really did look like a fight too because his bike would thrash through the corner barely staying shiny side up and he complained about corners. Eventually someone figured out what he was doing and made him take a course and actually learn that what he was doing unconsciously was working, but his rational mind was almost making him crash. Not a pretty sight.

 

[Pete Logan]

Well, if you are pushing the limits through a turn you had better know the turn. I never ride to the edge of my limits on the street. It leaves no room for error, on your part, or finding someone in your lane while in a blind corner (we have those up here and it's happened to me).

We do too. Even on bends I know, my limit is as fast as I can go and still be able to straighten up and stop the bike dead before I hit anything.

That's pretty slow

 

[Pete Logan]

#3 99.9% of riders will NOT be able to hold any decernable amount of counter steer right through a corner

cheers tone

Gee - I'm a 0.1%er

 

[mighty13d]

what if I'm counter steering to the left? I really wouldn't be able to hold "counter steer right" through it then! I'm confused... lol

 

[Pete Logan]

what if I'm counter steering to the left? I really wouldn't be able to hold "counter steer right" through it then! I'm confused... lol

That's why I do the push and pull with both hands. Then you can still wave on a left hander