Cramming for my electrics final

[Roostabunny]

Hey Fellas,

Getting geared up to do some standard electrical work. I think that this is the list of things that are normally done in order of complexity/cost...

1.) Clean all connections
2.) Ground the R/R to the battery
3.) Replace bullet connectors
4.) Perform the "coil relay mod"
5.) Upgrade the R/R?
6.) Test and possibly replace Stator

How is this as a project list? Am I missing anything or doing something I could test out of?

The other thing that's puzzling me is the tidy appearance behind my side panel. After reading the forum and tutorials, I expected to find a tangle of wires and bullet connectors, but I found what's pictured. With some help from the manual I identified some of the stuff, but I could use some help on the question marks.

Thanks!

 

[Nessism]

Can't see any real value in replacing bullet connectors except for the stator maybe.

I've heard that Deoxit is supposed to be pretty good stuff. http://store.caig.com/ Spray it into the connectors and it cleans and etches them - thus refreshes the continuity.

 

[Steve]

I would also reconsider the coil relay mod. Measure the voltage at the coil to determine whether it is necessary first. Most of the other points are valid.

In reference to your picture:

Yes, that is a starter relay. It is also commonly called the starter solenoid. Same thing. The large wires attached to it are, in fact, from the battery and to the starter. The small wire is the one that comes from the starter button on the right handgrip that activates the solenoid. Your 'Ground' reference is where the solenoid is grounded, but sometimes the battery box to which is it mounted is not all that well-grounded. It would be a good idea to run a wire (only has to be 16- or 18-gauge wire) to the negative terminal of the battery.

Yes, that is your ignitor unit.

Hopefully, that is NOT your r/r ground wire. First, it is red, second, it appears to be going to the POSITIVE terminal of the battery. That is most likely the output of the r/r that is going to the battery.

Yes, that is a bullet connector. One of several in that area. You will find more of them on your stator wires where they connect to your r/r.

Yes, that is your fuse block. Nice to see that you have a cover on it, as that give you labels for the fuses.

Yes, those appear to be your stator wires, but you might have to track them one way or the other to see if they actually go from stator to r/r.

Your "What is this?" item appears to be a power plug. There should be four wires there. One will be a hot feed from the ignition switch that powers the top three fuses in the fuse block. The other three wires are the ones that go from those fuses to their appropriate circuits.

My suggestion for the order of your list:

1.) Do the tests in The Stator Papers
2.) Based on your findings, clean or replace the offending connections. No harm if you happen to do them all
3.) Your Stator Paper tests will determine whether you need to replace/upgrade your r/r or your stator
4.) Test the voltage at the coils to determine whether you need to do the coil relay mod. It won't hurt to do it, but it might not be necessary.
5.) If you are having any problems with your bike starting when cold, be sure to check valve adjustment, too. Tight valves make it very hard to start.

.

 

[duaneage]

Do not run the red output of the RR directly to the battery. It needs to go through a fuse. Failure to do so creates a hazard. The bullet connectors as a design are fine, it's the age of them that is a problem. Replace them with new bullet connects and you will not only be fine but keep it compatible with parts you may get in the future.

Spade terminals have troubles too, they are not a panacea for connection problems.

 

[SPARKSS]

The one valid point in your post is summed up by the word "test".

Nothing wroing with preventive maintenance but modifying because you've read a few threads on it is not a great plan. First, learn and understand the theory.....then test to see if it's warranted.....decide....and if you modify, retest to confirm.

It's easy to get a mindset, based on a few threads, that a particular problem will always occur, is occurring now and that immediate and specific action is the only cure. There's usually some "thread" of truth in there that gets magnified and solidified into an absolute, as it gets repeated.

Put your time and effort into understanding first.

Some good advice in the replies you've received so far........My .02 worth.

 

[Roostabunny]

Can't see any real value in replacing bullet connectors except for the stator maybe.

I've heard that Deoxit is supposed to be pretty good stuff. http://store.caig.com/ Spray it into the connectors and it cleans and etches them - thus refreshes the continuity.

This stuff looks great, and I can buy it locally at Fry's Electronics. Great tip thanks!

Edit - Wow, Looks like CAIG might have something to fix the crackling volume pot on my Stratocaster, too!

 

[Nessism]

This stuff looks great, and I can buy it locally at Fry's Electronics. Great tip thanks!

Edit - Wow, Looks like CAIG might have something to fix the crackling volume pot on my Stratocaster, too!

Bought my supply at Fry's - they stock the version that is safe for plastic. Deoxit also has a product that is supposed to protect the connection - use it after cleaning with the regular Deoxit stuff. Unfortunately my local Fry's doesn't sell that type.

 

[jpaul]

Pick up some dielectric grease, and use it when reassembling all connections after cleaning.

 

[duaneage]

Radio Shack sells de-oxit too.

 

[Roostabunny]

Whoah there, don't go "charging" off half-cocked

Whoah there, don't go "charging" off half-cocked

LOL - That's why I come here.

Well, at least you guys are unanimous. I'm sure I'll find some dissenting opinions, but the point about testing (and getting a baseline) before I start R&R-ing is well taken. I intend to have this bike for a long time, so it's time well spent.

So those existing bullet connectors for the stator - are they hidden behind the fuse block or something?

And the comment about a red wire NOT being a ground - that makes sense, and I have three questions about that.

1.) Are red wires always going to be hot if the wiring is stock?
2.) Does the stock set-up have an in-line fuse?
3.) Total newb question - are the colors in the wiring diagram symbolic or do they indicate the actual color that the wire's supposed to be?

I'm trying to learn to read the diagrams (I have one from Basscliff's site and a Haynes manual with color wiring diagrams) and it's a new language. I'll get it - just takes me a while.

 

[Roostabunny]

Radio Shack sells de-oxit too.

Yeah - I'll check Fry's first (any excuse to go there - besides a need a phone for the house, too) and then maybe radio shack.

Based on what I read on the website, I think I'll use a 5% spray for the bike and a 100% liquid for the pots on my guitar, and I'm not sure if Fry's is going to have both.

 

[Roostabunny]

Pick up some dielectric grease, and use it when reassembling all connections after cleaning.

Check - got that stuff.

 

[Shaughn]

Newb to Newb

Newb to Newb

LOL - That's why I come here.
1.) Are red wires always going to be hot if the wiring is stock?
2.) Does the stock set-up have an in-line fuse?
3.) Total newb question - are the colors in the wiring diagram symbolic or do they indicate the actual color that the wire's supposed to be?

I'm a newb too (two weeks in), but I think I can help;

1) Typically, but don't count on it. Buy a meter, read the diagrams, follow the wires, and reread the diagrams. It's always easier to test than to repair a short from crossing a wire. I ran an auto service center for a few years and learned there is no guarantee that a harness matches the diagram, especially on older equipment. I once had a VW Jetta come in with all white wires in the harness! Also, this should go without saying, many non-red wires are 'hot' as well.

2) I don't have this bike, (so I don't have the relevant manual, or experience) but the wiring diagram from BassCliffs website shows this line fused through the fuse box. Be aware though that that diagram (assuming you're looking at the one at the top) is for a 1980, do you know if it is the same as the one for your 1981?

3) Not sure what you mean by symbolic- they are not read like the lines on a resistor, if that's what you're thinking. They are meant to represent the color used in the physical harness to aid in diagnostic/assembly. Different manufacturers use different colors for different functions, however some things are more universal, ie. black for Batt(-), red for Batt(-), yellow for airbag fire wire, and so on... Oh, and don't be fooled by length and position. Except for on certain multiwire connectors, there is no correlation between relative (left/right/up/down) location and length on a diagram as there is to the real harness. The diagram is a concept drawing to allow you to trace any wire end-to-end and to visualize current paths or paths to ground.

Good Luck!

-Shaughn
78 GS750E (9/77)

 

[Steve]

1.) Are red wires always going to be hot if the wiring is stock?
2.) Does the stock set-up have an in-line fuse?
3.) Total newb question - are the colors in the wiring diagram symbolic or do they indicate the actual color that the wire's supposed to be?

I'm trying to learn to read the diagrams (I have one from Basscliff's site and a Haynes manual with color wiring diagrams) and it's a new language. I'll get it - just takes me a while.

Wiring diagrams on these older (simple) bikes are not that hard at all.

Yes, for the most part, if a wire is red (all red), it will be a hot wire. Might not be hot until the key is turned on, but it will be a hot wire. As Shaughn mentioned, there will also be other colors of 'hot' wires. In fact, all the wires are there to carry current at one time or another, so they will all be 'hot' at one time or another.

The colors that you see in the wiring diagram are most likely what you will find on the bike. The diagram for the '80 on BassCliff's site will mostly work for my wife's '82, but you have to realize that there were different featues from one year to the next. The '79 bikes and some of the '80s could turn off the headlight, the rest of them can't, so the headlight switch is not shown in their diagram. The '82 and '83 bikes had a light to show the sidestand was down. That does not show in the '80 diagram. However, things that remain constant, like brake lights, turn signals, ignition circuits, all have the same color wires for all the years.

A quick tutorial on how to view the diagram to make it look easier:
Find the battery. There is a line that goes from there to the fuse panel. Follow the path through the main fuse to the ignition key, then back to the fuse panel, where that power wire feeds three other fuses. The top fuse only powers the head light, tail light and meter lights, so if you have problems with lights, look at the top fuse. The second fuse only powers signal devices. These devices are the turn signals, brake light and horns. The third fuse only powers the igniton. You have now broken up the diagram into three considerably smaller sections, making it much easier to track what is going on.

.

 

[Roostabunny]

Thanks for those replies, Steve and Shaughn - very helpful.

Nothin' to it but to do it at this point. Reality check - it's a simple, finite, and measurable system. Always scary to get into a new area, but I think once I start exploring things will get clearer real fast.

 

[Steve]

Reality check - it's a simple, finite, and measurable system.

OK, when you get that nailed down, you will have to consider this more of a pop-quiz than your 'electrics final'.

For your 'final', we are going to run you through the schematic on my GoldWing.

The main wiring diagram is shown on a single fold-out page in the manual (11x17 page), but there is also a completely separate manual supplement dedicated to electrical troubleshooting for this bike. The first 14 pages of this manual are dedicated to "How to Use This Manual" . (I am not kidding.

) The rest of this supplement is only another 133 pages, for a total of 147. This is just the electrical section, folks.

.

 

[Roostabunny]

OK, when you get that nailed down, you will have to consider this more of a pop-quiz than your 'electrics final'.

For your 'final', we are going to run you through the schematic on my GoldWing.

lol - I think I'll pass on that, Steve. Sounds like the joys of the open road and the simplicity of two-wheeled life are accompanied by the mechanical complexity of my wife's minivan. I did change a lightbulb and two brakelights on it last week, but that's as deep as I get. Do you work on those electrics yourself?

Slightly off-topic, I guess, but those minivan lights looked funny, and I'm wodering if you can recommend any online resources (or even a -- what are those off-line reading things called? Oh yeah -- a book!) to get a primer in general automotive electrical systems?

Either way - fair enough - we'll call the GS a "Quiz"

 

[Steve]

Do you work on those electrics yourself?

Fortunately, I have not yet had the need. Beyond the normal stuff like burned out bulbs and trying to add trailer wiring so it does not bother the bike's wiring, there has been no need to delve into the wiring harness. I do have one project in the wings (sorry about the pun) where I will have to get creative, but it's just an idea, so far.

.

 

[Matchless]

OK, when you get that nailed down, you will have to consider this more of a pop-quiz than your 'electrics final'.

For your 'final', we are going to run you through the schematic on my GoldWing.

The main wiring diagram is shown on a single fold-out page in the manual (11x17 page), but there is also a completely separate manual supplement dedicated to electrical troubleshooting for this bike. The first 14 pages of this manual are dedicated to "How to Use This Manual" . (I am not kidding.

) The rest of this supplement is only another 133 pages, for a total of 147. This is just the electrical section, folks.

.

And I think you mentioned fitting a 90 Amp alternator and I wondered why! That "thing" of yours has every possible gooftus macgaftus as stock and some! I just look at the pictures of your Wing and drool!

 

[Roostabunny]

And I think you mentioned fitting a 90 Amp alternator and I wondered why! That "thing" of yours has every possible gooftus macgaftus as stock and some! I just look at the pictures of your Wing and drool!

Ah, so he's got the rare factory installed blender, then?