Dead Starter?

[Cronos]

So it's been awhile since I've been on here and I need to fill in some gaps but meanwhile... I made it to California and the riding is great but last night and this morning my bike has been giving me issues. Last night I went to start it and when I hit the button it did absolutely nothing. Battery was solid with a bright headlight, no rrr rrr rrr sound, just nothing, I checked the run/kill switch and it was definitely set to run, released and pulled the clutch several times and nothing. This morning I went out to try and start it and it worked and I went about a quarter mile and then killed it and went to gear up. When I walked back out to the bike and tried to start it, it once again acted completely inert. Any suggestion or ideas? I'm at a friend's house so I'm stuck with only my mini toolkit. Thanks very much I hope to hear from you all soon.

 

[jbs80106]

Sounds familiar! Fortunately not a big deal, but you will need some ratchets w/extender to get pull the starter out. Sounds like its either:

A) dirty
B) needs new brushes, or
C) a magnet has come loose

I had weak starting and turned out cleaning it and replacing the brushes was the problem. Then later I had what you are describing. Sometimes would start like a champ. Other times nothing. Bump starting would work however if I had someone to help push me.

I pulled the starter and discovered one of the magnets had come loose and was stuck to another one, creating too much magnetism to allow the start to turn. A bit of 2 part high temp expoy and I was good to go.

On my bike (650) I have to loosen up the carbs so I can pull them up out of the way (don't have to remove them though). The starter sits under a plate on top of the case. Taking the cover off is easy enough, but you might want to double check you are actually getting power to the starter (need 2 people for this)...put your voltmeter on the little screw under the rubber cap at the starter, and attempt to start....you should see voltage there...

Pulling the starter is a bugger the first time. There are 2 (i think 6mm socket?) hex bolts that hold the starter in. Assuming you're on the stator side of the bike, the bolts are away from you at the top of the starter. Get those bad boys out and then some wiggling will allow you to get that end of the starter a bit out of the bay it sits in...you need to rotate it a little until you can pull the gear end out too.

Taking it apart is just 2 long bolts...I used a sharpie to mark the orientation the cap goes back on at (just a line from the cap to the body will do).

If you're stuck, just try cleaning it with some WD40 or degreaser or whatever is handy. Get that copper nice and bright. Check what kind of contact the brushes are making and that magents are equally spaced....

Re-assemble and give it a try....or just bumpstart it till you get home...

 

[lucabond]

Try looking at the 2 smaller wires on the solenoid they are the ones coming from the start button. Mine would need a wiggle now and again. If you can jump the 2 large posts on the solenoid with a screw driver and it turns over, it is likely to be the start button itself which can need a good cleaning just watch for the little spring when you take it apart. or the wiring between the solenoid and the starter button , good luck

 

[posplayr]

make sure you are getting 12V to your green yellow wire on the solenoid, if that is true it is also likely you have 12V to the coils.

Make sure the solenoid is grounded and listen for a click. If it doesn't click you might still be able to start the bike by shorting the big terminals on the solenoid just to get yourself home.

If the solenoid doesn't click, try shorting out the clutch lockout to see if that is it. Without a volt meter/test light it is going to be hard to tell.

Voltages comes in the following general order

from battery thru MAIN fuse to ignition switch
from ignition switch back to fuse box for IGNITION FUSE
from fuse box to right hand control / kill switch
from there it splits to solenoid (green/yellow) and Orange/White ignition.

Glad you made it OK, I think I remember you posting when you started. $2K and everything else in storage you headed out cross country from NY to CA :clap:

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

Where in Cal are you ?

 

[Cronos]

Ok...

Ok...

So I went to the solenoid and tried jumping it and now the starter is cranking and cranking and cranking but doesn't sound like it's even trying to catch, any ideas now?

 

[cowboyup3371]

Check your fuses, not just how they look but take a power light and check them for power with your key off. Than with your key on. I had the same problem/symptoms and it turned out to be my fuse for my ignition stuff.

 

[Cronos]

I'm around San Diego for the time being, I have friends putting me up and I may scout it as a place to stay. I still am not hearing the engine even attempt to catch. Starter is cranking at speed when jumping it but the engine isn't making any sounds that bode well. If I get it moving up to speed and pop it do you think that'll make a difference?

 

[cowboyup3371]

Honestly Cronos, start over and make sure all of your electrics are working. I wasted over 8 hours on a day off due to this same problem and it came down to a single fuse being blown. Everything you stated is exactly what happened to me.

 

[Redman]

So I went to the solenoid and tried jumping it and now the starter is cranking and cranking and cranking but doesn't sound like it's even trying to catch, any ideas now?

Maybe no need to mention this, but even though you are jumping out the starter solenoid, you do need to have ignition switch on.

ANd push starting it probably will not be any better, well, unless battery is low now.

YOu havent said anything about the fuses. Check the Ignition fuse. It powers the ignition and the starter solenoid circuit. (starter solenoid, not the starter motor. Is no fuse on starter motor.)

ANything further to report?

.

 

[tom203]

You actually made it- where's the iphone pics? Yeah, I know-later.
Anyways, advice given already should find your problem. You said " starter is cranking at speed" ( when you jump solenoid), but is motor turning over? Put bike on centerstand- make sure rear wheel is off ground!!!- put bike in 2nd gear. DON'T turn ignition on. Jump solenoid, does rear wheel lurch?

 

[Cronos]

I put it on the center stand and tried jumping it while holding in the clutch and the wheel was spinning. The engine still was not even trying to catch, We pulled out a plug and put the plug back into the cap and it wasn't sparking at all. Also pulled all the plugs and they all had white corrosion on them. What do you think I'll have to replace and can i do it or do I need a shop? Oh and I checked the wiring connections and everything seems solid.

 

[tom203]

I put it on the center stand and tried jumping it while holding in the clutch and the wheel was spinning. The engine still was not even trying to catch, We pulled out a plug and put the plug back into the cap and it wasn't sparking at all. Also pulled all the plugs and they all had white corrosion on them. What do you think I'll have to replace and can i do it or do I need a shop? Oh and I checked the wiring connections and everything seems solid.

Now we know that starter is actually turning motor- hooray! No spark means you got to check what was said before- fuses, connections, etc. You did pull a readable wiring diagram off Basscliff's site, right??? This makes it easy to check connections and locate the problem. Fuses might look good- just replace immediately! Also might be wiring at kill switch- the wiring on these bikes is always suspect. You'll want to figure this out yourself as a favor to the bike- it did get you cross-country,remember?

 

[Steve]

I have seen one thing suggested several times in this thread, but no results posted.


HAVE YOU CHECKED THE FUSES???

.

 

[tom203]

I have seen one thing suggested several times in this thread, but no results posted.


HAVE YOU CHECKED THE FUSES???

.

I got the feeling that something constantly distracts Cronos- I wonder what it could be!

 

[Cronos]

Hey now Tom, just cause you're around 99% accurate doesn't mean anything... Sorry I didn't respond to the fuses question, yes I checked them and replaced the main and ignition even though they looked fine. The wiring in the kill switch has me now questioning that because I have been using that as the main means of killing the engine and Im ashamed to admit it but the bike spent a few days exposed to the elements during what I've been told is the rainiest weeks they've seen here in San Diego in forever... Now I'll just have to get to my other friend's house so I can tinker with the bike now that it's been sitting nice and cozy in their garage. Will check the kill switch wiring and post on it asap

 

[Steve]

Do you have a test light or a voltmeter? :-k

A light is quicker and easier for this, but pull your gas tank, locate the coil wires (the smaller input wires, not the spark plug wires). Put your test light probe in with the orange/white wire, turn on the ignition key, make sure the RUN switch is ON. If the test light does not come on, work your way through the system.

Current flow for the ignition system starts at the ignition fuse (the middle one), then goes up, through a couple of connectors, to the RUN/KILL switch, back through some more connectors to the coils and ignitor. With all those connectors, there is a good chance of a bad connection. Follow that orange/white wire, check each side of every connector, you might find where the light no longer lights.

.

 

[argonsagas]

Let's look inside the possible fuse concern.

Open the fuse box and check the contacts. It is not uncommon for them to corrode to the point that little or no electricity moves past.

When I first got my GS1100 I found that the inner terminals had so much surface resistance that they overheated and melted part of the box.

It is worth a few moments to open the box and check, although it make take a few extra moments on your bike it the box must first be removed from the bike.

 

[tom203]

Do you have a test light or a voltmeter? :-k

A light is quicker and easier for this, but pull your gas tank, locate the coil wires (the smaller input wires, not the spark plug wires). Put your test light probe in with the orange/white wire, turn on the ignition key, make sure the RUN switch is ON. If the test light does not come on, work your way through the system.

Current flow for the ignition system starts at the ignition fuse (the middle one), then goes up, through a couple of connectors, to the RUN/KILL switch, back through some more connectors to the coils and ignitor. With all those connectors, there is a good chance of a bad connection. Follow that orange/white wire, check each side of every connector, you might find where the light no longer lights.

.

Cronos, do what Steve says! It only takes about ten minutes to remove gas tank which lets you get at those orange/white wires that power the ignition circuit ( once key and run switch are On). Even if it turns out to be at kill switch (likely), this is a good time to clean up connections to coils to ensure decent ignition.

 

[Cronos]

So I disassemble the kill switch and wiggled some of the wires around there and voil? it started right up, I'm wondering if there's a loose connection or if it's just the contacts. I'm going to just avoid using the kill switch for now until I can thoroughly go through it but how much of a pain in the ass do you think it'll be to run new wiring at least through there?