Dead Stator...RM Stator

[Darkstang]

My 6 month old RM Stator died... All connections were soldered. When I bought the stator , I was not impressed with it at all. Little to no epoxy on the windings and the lead out wires were very thin. They actually got hot enough the first day to melt. i took the cover off and replaced the lead out wires with high temp wires and even megged the stator to make sure it was not damaged.

8,000 miles later, the windings went to ground... With no epoxy, they burnt the magnet wire insulation off and shorted to the case. Still ohm good from wire to wire, but short to case...

SOOO, who makes a QUALITY stator?

Looking at the stator pages, Are the ElctroSport ones holding out?

Their sight lists EGS020 for a 83 GS1100E and a EGS010 for an 83 1100 Katana?? What was different about the katana?

ken

 

[Nessism]

The RM Stator and Electrosport stators that I've seen look suspiciously similar. Makes me wonder if they come from the same Chinese factory. I'd go for either OE or a Ricks.

 

[srsupertrap]

I purchased a RM stator and didn't like it either, barely 60 VAC brand new

 

[posplayr]

The RM Stator and Electrosport stators that I've seen look suspiciously similar. Makes me wonder if they come from the same Chinese factory. I'd go for either OE or a Ricks.

Ed,
I know you have seen this picture of my electrosport stator mountee on the ED. The powder coating seems to be particularly heavy and much better than some Ricks stators that have been supplied for Aprilas. Are you able to discern from the picture if this is chinese powdercoating?

Jim

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1228981&postcount=38

 

[posplayr]

My 6 month old RM Stator died... All connections were soldered. When I bought the stator , I was not impressed with it at all. Little to no epoxy on the windings and the lead out wires were very thin. They actually got hot enough the first day to melt. i took the cover off and replaced the lead out wires with high temp wires and even megged the stator to make sure it was not damaged.

8,000 miles later, the windings went to ground... With no epoxy, they burnt the magnet wire insulation off and shorted to the case. Still ohm good from wire to wire, but short to case...

SOOO, who makes a QUALITY stator?

Looking at the stator pages, Are the ElctroSport ones holding out?

Their sight lists EGS020 for a 83 GS1100E and a EGS010 for an 83 1100 Katana?? What was different about the katana?

ken

Ken,
If you are riding your bike aggressively and maintaining sustained RPM above 5-6K RPM then you can smoke your stator in short order due to the SHUNT R/R that is prevalent. My last stator lasted right about 8K miles as well. I have now switched to theCompufire SERIES R/R.

problem solved.
Jim


http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=161397

 

[posplayr]

Here is an entire thread dedicated to Rick's stators in various versions trying to solve an issue with stators burning up.

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160360

while there maybe some slight differences in power output due to windings I thing the best you can do is to find a stator with a good mechanical coating on the stator. In that regard the electrsport seems to be the best I have seen.

Having said that unless you putz around you can fry your stator using a SHUNT R/R.

The Main problem the Aprila guys had is that Aprila installed a rotor with twice the magnetic strength and doubled the power output of the R/R. In a SHUNT mode the stators fry.

 

[posplayr]

here is a pic showing that the last stator I had in my ED which lasted 8K miles was very likely a Ricks


http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1221123&postcount=5

They are not immune to frying. And from this picture it appears to have a very limited amount of insulation and mechanical support for the windings. That is bad
news.

There are electromotive forces on the windings as the rotors magnets move past. If the windings flex they will eventually wear through thier insulations and short. That is why "some" maufacturers coat the winding in heavy epoxy coatings to support the windings. Ricks DOES NOT do that.

 

[Darkstang]

My RM stator looks just like the ricks picture... NO epoxy or coating on the windings.
I drove the bike every day to work, Interstate in the morning and twisties back. Yes it spent a great deal of time between 5 and 6k rpm.

I will try the ElectoSport one. Will have to save a little for the Compufire...

I JUST bought a brand new set of Dunlop Q2's and NOW the stator

I am broke

Going to shut the shop doors for awhile and fire up my convertible Mustang...

 

[posplayr]

My RM stator looks just like the ricks picture... NO epoxy or coating on the windings.
I drove the bike every day to work, Interstate in the morning and twisties back. Yes it spent a great deal of time between 5 and 6k rpm.

I will try the ElectoSport one. Will have to save a little for the Compufire...

I JUST bought a brand new set of Dunlop Q2's and NOW the stator

I am broke

Going to shut the shop doors for awhile and fire up my convertible Mustang...

Those pics of my stator are how much it got brown in only 250 miles using a FET based R/R so I would limit the RPM till you can deal with the problem. I also did a sprayer before figuring out the SERIES r/r stuff but that is not nessesarily a whole lot cheaper and really is just a bandaid.

It was however effective at keeping the stator cool.

 

[tom203]

As soon as your motor starts, the stator is pushing 150 + watts. Then, motor heats up to 200 degrees to add to the fun. The magnet wire used in stator must be REAL good to survive this high temp enviroment. But it also has to be flexable enough to be wrapped tightly around the core without chafing its insulation. I'm not convinced that lathering the stator with an epoxy or plastic coating is helpful. It definitely restricts heat transfer- forcing the stator cover hub to absorb more heat. Yes, there are mechanical forces tugging at windings, but these should have been dealt with during winding operation. That being said..... I just replaced my 81 oem stator ( heavily coated) with an ebay item said to be off 82 gs450 tx ? (lightly coated ). I had another stator like my original, but the ebay item looked nicely done and so I used it. The pics being posted here from others show some crude winding techniques. Hopefully, we will find out who's making a decent stator-a six months life is ridiculous.

 

[posplayr]

As soon as your motor starts, the stator is pushing 150 + watts. Then, motor heats up to 200 degrees to add to the fun. The magnet wire used in stator must be REAL good to survive this high temp enviroment. But it also has to be flexable enough to be wrapped tightly around the core without chafing its insulation. I'm not convinced that lathering the stator with an epoxy or plastic coating is helpful. It definitely restricts heat transfer- forcing the stator cover hub to absorb more heat. Yes, there are mechanical forces tugging at windings, but these should have been dealt with during winding operation. That being said..... I just replaced my 81 oem stator ( heavily coated) with an ebay item said to be off 82 gs450 tx ? (lightly coated ). I had another stator like my original, but the ebay item looked nicely done and so I used it. The pics being posted here from others show some crude winding techniques. Hopefully, we will find out who's making a decent stator-a six months life is ridiculous.

With a series R/R all my worries are gone

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

Makes me wonder? As I have the heaver 12 pole stator in my 79GS850. The bike has 46K miles on her. As far as I know it is the original. At 20k I did put the Honda Reg on her when I was putting her back on the road along with a relay to power the fuse panel. Anyone considering buying a new reg should consider the NEW Compu fire regulator OR at least the FS012?

 

[posplayr]

Makes me wonder? As I have the heaver 12 pole stator in my 79GS850. The bike has 46K miles on her. As far as I know it is the original. At 20k I did put the Honda Reg on her when I was putting her back on the road along with a relay to power the fuse panel. Anyone considering buying a new reg should consider the NEW Compu fire regulator OR at least the FS012?

The FH0012A doesn't really help, slight worse on the stator if anything.

The OEM is probably best as it might let the charging voltage get to 15V which means less power dissipated in the stator.

 

[bluewool]

As soon as your motor starts, the stator is pushing 150 + watts. Then, motor heats up to 200 degrees to add to the fun. The magnet wire used in stator must be REAL good to survive this high temp enviroment. But it also has to be flexable enough to be wrapped tightly around the core without chafing its insulation. I'm not convinced that lathering the stator with an epoxy or plastic coating is helpful. It definitely restricts heat transfer- forcing the stator cover hub to absorb more heat. Yes, there are mechanical forces tugging at windings, but these should have been dealt with during winding operation. That being said..... I just replaced my 81 oem stator ( heavily coated) with an ebay item said to be off 82 gs450 tx ? (lightly coated ). I had another stator like my original, but the ebay item looked nicely done and so I used it. The pics being posted here from others show some crude winding techniques. Hopefully, we will find out who's making a decent stator-a six months life is ridiculous.

I my tour of the local winding shop I found out a few interesting things,

1 Most winding shops won't use anything less than class F (150C)or class H(180C) magnet wire
2 the oil in the sump actually COOLS the windings.
3 The tight winding and epoxy IS how winders deal with the electromotive forces
4 The epoxy is very thermally conductive.

It really shouldn't be that hard to make a stator that lasts, it's dead simple technology.

 

[posplayr]

2 the oil in the sump actually COOLS the windings.
3 The tight winding and epoxy IS how winders deal with the electromotive forces
4 The epoxy is very thermally conductive.

That is why I really like the Electro sport stator I pictured. When compared to the Ricks which looks like then never heard of electromotive with that barely discernible clear coat on the windings.

It is quite clear also that the "COOLING" oil on my GS was only effective at the bottom. The top turned brown; hence my installation of an oil sprayer.

In order to burn powder coating that cures at 400 degF the windings must reach 500-600 deg F, that is why 200 degF oil is very cooling.

It also explains why the dead simple technology is so problematic. The SHUNT R/R's stress the crap out of the stators. SERIES R/R is the only way to go.

 

[tom203]

Dead simple technology? ok, Why don't you show this shop the size of these stators and see how excited they get about rewinding it. These stators are tiny compared to what most shops work on.
I wonder where most of this wire is being made now ? probably the far east where standards have a way of being loosely adhered to.
But you bring up a point about oil that concerned me. When I did my stator (gs 650 ), I was surprised at lack of oil and oil stains inside rotor cavity. Later after putting it back together, I used a level to determine that maximum oil level would just touch rotor bottom- running would be less. Splashing oil would be nice, but stator is nested inside rotor, so I have my doubts about cooling oil even ignoring oil is 200 degrees. Most cooling comes from stator cover- maybe we should add cooling fins.

 

[bluewool]

200F is not warm.

200F is not warm.

I did show them the core of mine. He knew what it was right away. Even one of the outside sales guys knew what it was. They had no trouble rewinding these for years until it became unprofitable to deal with off shore imports. The old guy actually showed me where the "automotive division" used to be, it was a 1/4 of the 20000square feet. These are the simplest windings, this is the sort of thing they use to get 1st year apprentices to wind.
My comment about the "cooling" was this... people think that 200F is hot. It is not. Not when it comes to the temperatures the internals of alternators/generators, or electric motor sustain. I am not under the illusion that somehow a semi enclosed stator sitting in a half full sump is "oil cooled" 200F oil coming in contact with a 300F windings could have no effect other than to cool it.
No need for cooling fins just a series r/r.

 

[bluewool]

oh, and he said he would rewind it. 3hr @ 100/hr(standard shop rate). 1 week turn around(because all the apprentices were at BCIT). Obviously I declined.

 

[posplayr]

I am not under the illusion that somehow a semi enclosed stator sitting in a half full sump is "oil cooled" 200F oil coming in contact with a 300F windings could have no effect other than to cool it.
.

Why only 300 DegF, Did you ask what temp it takes to discolor the powder coating?

It takes close to 400 DegF just to get the PC to flow and cure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_coating

Curing
When a thermoset powder is exposed to elevated temperature, it begins to melt, flows out, and then chemically reacts to form a higher molecular weight polymer in a network-like structure. This cure process, called crosslinking, requires a certain degree of temperature for a certain length of time in order to reach full cure and establish the full film properties for which the material was designed. Normally the powders cure at 200?C (390?F) in 10 minutes. The curing schedule could vary according to the manufacturer's specifications.
The application of energy to the product to be cured can be accomplished by convection cure ovens or infrared cure ovens.

 

[Nessism]

Why only 300 DegF, Did you ask what temp it takes to discolor the powder coating?

It takes close to 400 DegF just to get the PC to flow and cure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_coating

How do you know that blue stuff is power coat? And if it is, how do you know it cures at 400F? There are various grades and types of powder.