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Deleting the e-starter

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheDuke
  • Start date Start date
T

TheDuke

Guest
I'm tearing apart and rebuilding my '79 750E and I'm planning to remove the electric starter and use kick start only. I have read rumors that there are some sort of machined plug that you install in its stead once you've removed the motor, is this true? And is it as simple as removing the starter motor and moving on with your life? As a side note, I likely won't replace the whole wiring harness, and will still run a Li battery.
 
you can buy an aluminum plug from say APE or go to your local auto parts store and buy a rubber expandable freeze out plug.
just that simple:)
 
You can also remove the starter clutch if you want. Not as easy as installing a plug though.
 
Or you can just ignore the little button and kick away to your heart's desire.
icon_shrug.gif


But, I get the impression that you are trying to save a couple pounds of weight. :o

.
 
Nessism said:
You can also remove the starter clutch if you want. Not as easy as installing a plug though.
Click to expand...

eh?
well hell he should pull the stator cover and remove the idler gear and pin but...
of course remove the cable from the Solenoid....
i got these instructions from NASA i swear;)
 
blowerbike said:
eh?
well hell he should pull the stator cover and remove the idler gear and pin but...
of course remove the cable from the Solenoid....
i got these instructions from NASA i swear;)
Click to expand...

So you can't pull the rotor and then the starter clutch? Loose some rotating mass? :confused:
 
Nessism said:
So you can't pull the rotor and then the starter clutch? Loose some rotating mass? :confused:
Click to expand...

i have for people that i have installed a magneto for on 750 kicker model's..
but of course he will have no charging system if he pull's his rotor.
 
blowerbike said:
i have for people that i have installed a magneto for on 750 kicker model's..
but of course he will have no charging system if he pull's his rotor.
Click to expand...

Didn't explain well. Should have said to put the rotor back after removing the starter clutch. Is that possible?
 
Nessism said:
Didn't explain well. Should have said to put the rotor back after removing the starter clutch. Is that possible?
Click to expand...

i never said to remove the starter clutch..it can stay unless he want's the little benefit of removing it...(the rotor would be noticeable)not the S/C.
hell the idler gear and pin can stay if he doesn't go to deep with the plug.
he just wanted to plug a hole...i told him how:hand:
 
If doing a battery delete, does the magneto setup benefit the amount of spark on kickstarting? I have been playing with the idea of removing the battery, starter, gear, pin, etc to drop some more weight.


Off-topic, but Blowerbike, Ive been working in your area & staying at the 122&75 Super8 hotel for a few weeks. I found some nice roads out your way - Oxford Rd, Elk Creek rd, brown's run rd (the south segment off howe), greenbush, rocky rd/hinkle rd etc. Hoping to find some more twisty roads if I bring my GS back with me when I come back in a few weeks, & may hit you up for some cruising or suggested routes!
 
Chuck78 said:
If doing a battery delete, does the magneto setup benefit the amount of spark on kickstarting? I have been playing with the idea of removing the battery, starter, gear, pin, etc to drop some more weight.


Off-topic, but Blowerbike, Ive been working in your area & staying at the 122&75 Super8 hotel for a few weeks. I found some nice roads out your way - Oxford Rd, Elk Creek rd, brown's run rd (the south segment off howe), greenbush, rocky rd/hinkle rd etc. Hoping to find some more twisty roads if I bring my GS back with me when I come back in a few weeks, & may hit you up for some cruising or suggested routes!
Click to expand...

you named a couple roads i could hit with a rock...or you if you road by:D
hinkle/elk creek/rocky/oxford/browns run ect..
the mag deal is...
the mag will only run the engine but has a huge spark(mallory..i forget the amps).
top fuel/funny cars run 2 of these...they are belt driven off the right side of the crank.
the 2 guys i installed these for had crap or ummm bobbers with chopped harnesses and bad points.
they had been from shop to shop and spending money and getting nothing.
i told them the facts about using a mag and a price(rather large for installed)...and they went for it.
1 or 2 kicks and off they went...no lights or anything but they knew that going in but there bikes never ran better.
i told them to run a few simple wires for break light and head/tail light and to trickle charge there battery when it got low.
i removed there alt. rotor/starter and every single bit of electronics that was thrash anyways.
anyways there it is..
yes you are close to me..the 122/75 is at the opposite end of where i'm at...i am west on 122(20-25 minutes away from the highway).
i can get to 3 or 4 different county's in just a few minutes out here.
 
blowerbike said:
i never said to remove the starter clutch..it can stay unless he want's the little benefit of removing it...(the rotor would be noticeable)not the S/C.
hell the idler gear and pin can stay if he doesn't go to deep with the plug.
he just wanted to plug a hole...i told him how:hand:
Click to expand...

Aarg, meant that I did not explain well, not that YOU didn't explain well.

OP seems to be gone already from this thread, so just us idiots continuing to banter here.:hand:

My question: is it possible to remove the starter clutch assembly from the crank end, yet retain the rotor for the charging system? The idea is to remove as much weight from the bike as possible. Removing rotating weight will reduce the flywheel effect and allow the engine to rev easier.
 
I'm still here lurking. But some of this mechanical talk discussion is over my head. I'd like to save weight, that was the genesis of the idea to remove the starter. I hadn't considered the starter clutch/charging mechanism nor am I entirely sure how those are connected to the starter motor. I just figured I'd yank out the starter, plug it, and tuck the wires away.

What is the starter clutch and rotor? Are they relatively easy to find once I start disassembling this beast and should I go ahead and remove the clutch as well? Is there a how-to on this anywhere? I couldn't find anything.
 
Just how much weight do you plan on losing? :-k

And for what purpose? :-k

I ask because the bike, with a full tank of fuel, is almost 550 pounds. Removing a starter and installing a smaller battery might save you ... what? 10 pounds?

If you are going racing, yes, every pound matters, bur for street use, it does not matter all that much.

If all you are doing is to project a macho image on the kick starter, it seems like a lot of effort for minimal gain. If that is all you are trying to do, just kick it and ignore the button.
icon_shrug.gif


And that does not even take into account the 'fun' you will have with the charging system. I have not heard any long-term reports about using Lithium batteries, but I do know that Lithium batteries require a different charging algorithm than what most vehicles can provide. Yeah, it probably works for a while, but what about long-term?

Good luck with your project.

.
 
Just my 2? on the lithium batteries.

I've had my Shorai for nearly a year now and it's still holding up just fine. Granted, that's only -one- year but its showing no signs of deterioration. Still holds 13.5 or better and seems to have zero issues with my charging system. This is around 5500 miles on the battery.

It's only died once, and that was because my stator gave up, after an upgraded stator and R/R its doing better than ever.
 
I have run lots of English bikes with either dead batteries or no batteries without magnetos. I don't know much about the differences in charging systems, but I know that those bikes,like Suzukis had no brushes on the alternator (Unlike some Hondas and Yamahas I have owned). The English bikes had a big capacitor mounted on a spring that supposedly stored a bit of electricity and released it into the ignition. I know that it worked fine. Is there anything there that might work to help a Suzuki start without a battery?
 
I recently had thought I would do a battery delete, but after reading and thinking a lot about this, I thought maybe putting a very small battery in it would help out with starting spark and keeping the lights bright well at or near idle speed.

Blower, I should be back in a week or so when some boiler pumps and various parts and piping fittings arrive. working at the corner of Verity Pkwy and Tytus. if you are down for a ride sometime or just to check out bikes, let me know. If you could PM me similar route through some nice hills & valleys that arent too far away from the area, that would be awesome. Google terrain view on maps shows a bit of topography, so that is how I have found the route I have ridden several times so far.the ones I named were the most fun for sure. Did a north of Hamilton loop that was decent, and rode E Miami River Road south of there almost to Cincinnati.
 
also, I have dropped my GS 750 from about 552 lbs wet down to right around 500lbs on the scales with 3/4 tank of gas, and that was not taking any really drastic measuresto get the bike to that point.lots of mods done, but no fancy aftermarket stuff or late model parts other than rotors. . The bike handles considerably better in the twisties, much quicker to respond despite having a slightly longer wheelbase with the 1100 swing arm. just riding it through the hotel parking lot the other night with no gas tank on it and then pushing it up the loading ramp into the back of my work truck, I was amazed at how much easier it was to throw around with just the gas tank weight off! that got me thinking again about doing a starter and battery delete.
 
Removing weight high up, like at fuel tank level, will result in much greater perceived (and real) difference in handling, than lower down at level of starter motor.
 
850 Combat said:
I have run lots of English bikes with either dead batteries or no batteries without magnetos. I don't know much about the differences in charging systems, but I know that those bikes,like Suzukis had no brushes on the alternator (Unlike some Hondas and Yamahas I have owned). The English bikes had a big capacitor mounted on a spring that supposedly stored a bit of electricity and released it into the ignition. I know that it worked fine. Is there anything there that might work to help a Suzuki start without a battery?
Click to expand...
yes- the capacitor. you can look these up as "motorcycle battery eliminator"
here's one:
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/BEC.html

looks like something out you could rip (carefully) out of an old tube tv, to me. It'd be lighter than a lead battery.
I still have trouble imagining that it'll work as well as a magneto but you get to keep your lights, I guess.
(maybe Dimont46 will report back
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=213821)
 
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