Drive chains revisited

[Joe Nardy]

I realize this has been addressed before but while researching drive chains I came across a site with an interesting point of view regarding plain, o-ring, and x-ring chains.

http://www.quality-cycle.com/truth_about_motorcycle_chains.htm

They basically say that o-ring chains aren't much better than plain chains and that a quality plain chain will last just as long as an o-ring chain as long as it is well maintained. I've e-mailed them asking for a recommendation for my GS1100E.

They also say that PJ1 Blue Label chain lube is the BEST. I've used it in the past and had good luck with it. I'm currently using Maxima Chain Wax per the recommendation of the fine folks on this site but haven't used it long enough to make a fair judgment.

Anyone have any thoughts on these subjects that they would like to share?

Joe

 

[Anonymous]

chain

chain

I use a good STOCK type chain cause they have less flex resistance and you have to lube any way, Iam not cheap its just my own thoughts on it

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I have a thought about the chain lube.
I've been the perfect guinea pig as far as comparing the PJ o-ring safe chain lube and the Maxima o-ring safe chain wax.
I've used both products for thousands of miles under identical conditions.
Both go on relatively clean and the excess is easy to wipe up if you don't wait too long. Both cling well. That's where the similarity ends.
The PJ attracts dirt more. But the worst thing, in the case with o-rings, is the PJ doesn't preserve the o-rings nearly as long. I thought the PJ was working well until I got a closer look at my chain during a typical cleaning.
Several o-rings were gone. I took off my case cover and found most off them had flown off and stuck into the build up of chain lube coating the case. About 10 of them flew off. They were all real brittle.
This hasn't happened with the Maxima chain wax. I've gone though several cleanings and checked the o-rings by poking them. They're still supple.
I used PJ for years, mostly because it didn't fling off. But I now use the Maxima chain wax.

 

[focus frenzy]

Re: Drive chains revisited

Anyone have any thoughts on these subjects that they would like to share?

Joe

you asked for it!!! :twisted: :twisted:

SHAFTIES RULE!!!!!!!!!

I had to hold my buddies SV 1000 up (no center stand) while he oiled his chain!!

 

[Joe Nardy]

Re: Drive chains revisited

Anyone have any thoughts on these subjects that they would like to share?

Joe

you asked for it!!! :twisted: :twisted:

SHAFTIES RULE!!!!!!!!!

I had to hold my buddies SV 1000 up (no center stand) while he oiled his chain!!

You're right, I deserved that................I'll keep my shaft conversations on the FJR boards.

Joe

 

[DMPLATT]

Being a relative rookie, I don't deserve to post here. But h$ll, that hasn't stopped me before. :twisted:

I got my Gs last may/june. On what I've read here, and else where, I got the Maxima chain wax. Since I don't have a center stand to speak of, I've not done the kerosene cleaning and all that others speak of. I just check the chain once in a while and spray it good with the Maxima chain wax.

So far I've got about 7500 miles since I've gotten the bike, and no adjustments or excessive wear that I can tell. I'm not a pro, but so far same tension as almost 7 months ago and same tooth wear. I'm stuck.

I've got a friend in Ohio who is much more experienced than I, and he only sprays WD 40 on his chains every so often. Not sure how many miles he gets, but he is a daredevil who in addition to his R1, just ordered a Hyabusa. To each his own I guess.

:lol: :lol:

 

[lhanscom]

They also talk a lot about tensile strength, and for good reason, it's the raw strength of the material. I run a 630 chain, and have been very impressed with the RK630SO, it has lasted about double the time the parts unlimited o-ring chains were lasting on my GS700. That 700 only had maybe 80 or 90 hp, my current bike is more in the neighborhood of 150hp, that says a lot for the chain. I've put 20,000 miles on my bike this year, including a fair number of trips down the strip, and I now need to adjust my chain for the first time. Though the rear sprocket has not faired quite as well, and needs replacement, so the whole set will be replaced. I looked at the tensile strength, and it's rated at 11,100lbs. One of the highest I've seen. One note, get a rivet style master, the clip style just can't be trusted, and I have the cracks to prove it.

 

[AOD]

They also say that PJ1 Blue Label chain lube is the BEST

I just ordered some of this stuff...I've been using a can of generic 'silicone spray lube' for about a year now, it seems to work okay.

 

[earlfor]

After years of caked PJ and globby chain wax, and piles of pertrified sand glop built up my my side case, and being tired of washing chains in kerosene to get rid of the sand and grit they ALL attract to a fairly healthy degree, I decided to try something different.

I use RK 630 SO "O" ring chain or sometimes Tsubaki "O" ring,and I have always used a clip master link. The only thing I do differently than most with a clip masterlink is I install it once. If it needs to be removed, it goes in the trash and a new one gets installed. I have broken chains and pulled pins through the sides of links, but I've never broken a clip master link, had one come loose, or lost one.

"O" ring chains are internally lubricated and the lubrication is sealed in by the "O" rings. There is no need to lubricate the chain itself and you cannot get lube between the pins and rollers anyway because they are sealed. It is a misnomer. It should be called rubber protectorant and corrosion inhibitor, or at least that is what we need, NO ONE with an "O" ring chain NEEDS chain lube.

For the last four months, I have been using Boeshield T-9. Its clear, requires only a very thin mist to protect , adheres well, does not attract dirt, does not build up, preserves rubber and is a corrosion block. It also is safe for waterproofing wiring, corrosion blocking battery terminals, electronics and lubing cables.

I buy it through work, but you can get it online here.
http://www.properautocare.com/boeshieldt9.html
If you scroll down to about the middle of the webpage, motorcycle applications are listed.

In the four months I have been using Boeshield, I have not needed to adjust my chain (about 7K miles) The chain has not been cleaned and still does not need to be cleaned, There is no grit or build up on it. It still looks like a newly installed chain. The"O" rings are just fine. There is no corrosion on the chain and there are no stiff/sticky links. In fact, there is no noticable indication of any wear on the chain.

No more chain glue for me.

Earl

 

[Joe Nardy]

Earl,

I couldn't agree more about the clip type master link. I have never had any problems with them.

I also think that a lot of us, myself included, have probably done more damage than good by trying to keep o-ring chains clean. I used to spray WD-40 on the chain, let it soak, then wipe it down. I would then lube it with chain lube. While this left the outside of the chain looking great the WD-40 (or kerosene or other solvents) would penetrate the o-rings and dissolve the grease. The chain lube is not thin enough to get past the o-rings and lube the important part of the chain. Now the chain would corrode where you couldn't see it and wear very quickly. In some other chain posts several people mention stiff links on o-ring chains. I believe this is what may have happened in those cases. I know it happened to me.

I am waiting to hear back from the folks mentioned above but I am thinking seriously of buying the D.I.D non o-ring chain they recommend.

Joe

 

[earlfor]

I have been the DID non "O" ring chain. I found it galled the pins much more so than the "O" ring type even though I kept it chain lubed to the point that my rear rim was always a greasy mess as well as the left side of my rear tire. It lasted about 3 weeks on the 1150, at which point, I suspect the pins had galled enough that one finally heated up and broke. Threw the chain in a nice straight line right down the centerstripe of the highway.
I might use a non "O" ring chain on up to a GS550, but thats about it.

Earl

I am waiting to hear back from the folks mentioned above but I am thinking seriously of buying the D.I.D non o-ring chain they recommend.

Joe

 

[saaz]

I think you will find many people never really bother to oil oring chains, and they work for ages. You may have to chnage the sprockets and the chain, but most don't have the bike long enough.

I have never gotten a normal chain to last as long as a good oring chain. Really looked after a non-oring will be ok, but a good quality oring will be far easier.

 

[Jethro]

The only real reason I go with o-ring chains is because there is no doubt that they are quieter. I've had both on my bike before, the o-ring was so much quieter. As far as wear or performance, I guess I'll take that articles' word for it.

As far as lube, does anyone deny that a brand new chain is the best lubricated it will ever be? I use gear oil, just like the chain manufacturers use for thier new chains. Get the chain nice and hot, get it as clean as you can, coat it with gear oil (pay homage to the shafty boys here) and let it sit overnight. That's the best way I have come across to keep the chain lubed, recommended by a racer friend of mine.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

It's funny how we all have different experiences with brands of chain and how to lube them.
I've had good luck with 1 Tsubaki o-ring chain, bad luck with an RK o-ring chain, and good luck with the DID o-ring chain. I stick with the DID now.
I'm also sold on the Maxima chain wax. I may still try the Boeshield down the road though.
Earl, I'm not sure what you mean about the chain not needing to be lubed. Maybe I read it wrong. I agree it's difficult to get the lube in the rollers, but the o-rings don't stop the lube from doing some good. If you look closely, the rollers move back and forth just a bit. Enough to get some lube in there. If you lube the chain while it's still hot from riding, the lube will get in there. You have to place the lube tube right where the link touches the sprocket and at about 4 or 5:00 as you slowly spin the wheel. The lube will set up and do some good. Not as good as factory, but it still gets lubed.
The Maxima chain wax really helps keep the o-rings supple, so they can do their job better. The outside of the chain of course needs corrosion protection.
Joe, I agree that cleaning the chain in kerosene will remove some or all of the factory grease, but what can we do? If you let the dirt stay on, the grit will help shorten the life of the chain and sprockets. If you lube the chain as I said, you'll get some lube back in the rollers.
As for losing master clips, for years now after a good cleaning, I wipe a dab of black silicone/sealant over the entire clip and its plate. I've never lost a clip or plate since, and you can hardly see the silicone (for the perfectionist's.)

 

[Joe Nardy]

Joe, I agree that cleaning the chain in kerosene will remove some or all of the factory grease, but what can we do? If you let the dirt stay on, the grit will help shorten the life of the chain and sprockets. If you lube the chain as I said, you'll get some lube back in the rollers.

Keith,

What I've read is that you shouldn't apply solvent directly to the chain. It is better to apply the solvent to a rag and wipe the chain with the rag. This way there isn't enough solvent in contact with the chain to soak past the o-rings and dissolve the contained grease. I used to spray WD-40 on my chains until they were dripping wet. This was a great way to clean the chain but I didn't realize that I was probably ruining it at the same time.

By the way, the website mentioned above claims that X-ring chains are significantly better at retaining the original grease due to the much better seal the X-rings have against the plates. Does anyone have experience with X-ring chains?

Joe

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The rag method works, I've tried it, but it's slow and not complete enough.
I start off with a rag, but I still place the chain in a pan with a very shallow amount of kerosene. I mean very shallow. I just dab away at the chain trying to avoid much dripping onto the o-rings. I'm sure a little still gets past the o-rings, but I do my best. I first get some kerosene on it and let it sit about 15 minutes. When I come back, the medium course bristle brush I use takes it right off. The right brush has a lot to do with it too.
I don't have any experience with the x-ring chains. But I'm still in the dark ages, running a 630 o-ring chain. After I wear it out, and another new one I have waiting, I plan to do the 530 conversion.
At that time, I figure all of you guys will have enough experience to help me decide if I want one of the x-ring chains or not. Better you guys be the guinea pigs! :lol:

 

[Guest]

Now I'm slightly confused. My GS450 is my first bike so I've be relying on the advise of others. My GS has a standard, non-O-ring chain. I asked the guy at the Suzuiki dealer in my area about what to lube the chain with and he said just plain old WD-40. This sounded a little weird but I thought he should know what he was talking about. (Unless he just wants me to add a new chain to the long list of parts I've already bought from him?!?!) So now I ask, you guys have been right on everything else, what is the proper way to clean, lube, and maintain a chain. What should I clean and lube it with and how often? My GS thanks you for keeping me from hurting it through my own lack of knowledge.

 

[Joe Nardy]

WD-40 is great for cleaning since it is a kerosene-based solvent. It does leave a lubricating film but I think it is much too thin for a chain lubricant. The idea behind most chain lubes is that they contain a heavy lubricant thinned out by a solvent. When you spray the lube on the chain the solvent helps carry the thicker lube into the important places. Then the solvent evaporates leaving a thick lube. An important thing to remember is that a chain needs lubrication most INSIDE the rollers where you can't see it. An o-ring chain uses the o-rings to keep the original lube inside. A non o-ring chain has no seals to keep the lube in place and needs more attention. There are many theories on how to lube a chain but a good method is to ride for a while to warm it up, wipe it clean with a rag and solvent (WD-40 or kerosene), then lube it with a premium chain lube. Be sure to spray the chain lube between the plates and between the plates and rollers. The warmth of the chain will help the chain lube find its way into the places where it is needed. When the solvent evaporates you are left with a thick lube inside the rollers where it is most needed. Once it has cooled down you can wipe it clean again with the solvent and rag to remove the chain lube left on the outside of the chain. You'll now have a clean chain that is lubed inside where it counts.

Hope that helps,
Joe

 

[earlfor]

WD40 has minimal lubricating qualities. It is intended as a water barrier/displacement compound and consequently is useful for inhibiting rust.

On an "O" ring chain, the sideplates are separated by the "O" ring, so there is no heat build up/friction from sideplates rubbing together. "O" ring chains are sealed with lube on the pins at the factory. The seal is the"O" ring, so you cannot lube the internal pins anyhow. WD40 is sufficient on an "O" ring chain because all that is needed is something to keep the rubber "O" rings from drying out and something that will keep the sideplates from rusting.

On a non "O" ring chain, you need a lubricant between the sideplates to reduce friction and you need rust protection. WD40 is better than nothing in this application as it will keep the chain from rusting. But, as a lubricant, it is not much improvement over nothing. For that, you need chain lube, oil, or gear oil.

Earl

Now I'm slightly confused. My GS450 is my first bike so I've be relying on the advise of others. My GS has a standard, non-O-ring chain. I asked the guy at the Suzuiki dealer in my area about what to lube the chain with and he said just plain old WD-40. This sounded a little weird but I thought he should know what he was talking about. (Unless he just wants me to add a new chain to the long list of parts I've already bought from him?!?!) So now I ask, you guys have been right on everything else, what is the proper way to clean, lube, and maintain a chain. What should I clean and lube it with and how often? My GS thanks you for keeping me from hurting it through my own lack of knowledge.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey earl,
I didn't want to start a new topic so I figured I would ask ya here.
My shifter linkage pins are loose and since there is no way of tightning
them up that i'm aware of, what do ya do :?:
Here is one option I stumbled across..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34284&item=4516396096&rd=1
I really like the price.
Maybe new would be the more sensible option..