Dropping float bowls without removing carb-advice needed

[BigD_83]

I can see how taking the float bowls off with s.s. allen bolts might be fairly easy, but I can't do that until I swap out the JIS screws.

One way I'm thinking is to jam a screwdriver bit into a small ratchet wrench, but that could lead to stripped heads.

Does anyone have any tips for removing the float bowls with the carbs attached in order to replace the main jets for plug chop purposes?

 

[Agemax]

more hassle than its worth, just as quick to remove the carbs and much less chance of ruining a screw head and struggling

 

[cowboyup3371]

If you still have the JIS screws in there then it'll be much easier to just remove the carbs and have a go at it with the impact driver. You'll have much better leverage and room doing it that way.

 

[7981GS]

Often, the screws on carbs need to come off with a slam-hammer.
The screws are soft and have corroded threads that might as well have lok-tite on them.
Remove the carbs.

Eric

 

[tom203]

You mean with carbs installed- I can't see enough space to drop bowls and clear floats and choke pickup tube, no matter how easy the bowl screws come out. I suppose you could pry carbs up in boots, but it appears nasty.

 

[BigD_83]

You mean with carbs installed- I can't see enough space to drop bowls and clear floats and choke pickup tube, no matter how easy the bowl screws come out. I suppose you could pry carbs up in boots, but it appears nasty.

Thank you gentlemen.

All of the JIS screws go in and out easily. I think there was only one that required the impact hammer when I got the bike a year ago.

I was skeptical it could be done with the carbs installed, but a few people on here mentioned the possibility. I suspect they had replaced the JIS screws.

Tom, you remember how I said I was getting really good at getting the carbs in and out? I guess I get even more practice this week.

Eric: I have yet to tear the carbs down, but when I install the jets, I'll have a look to see if I have the Canadian needles. I just saw in another thread that the Canadian-spec'd carbs came with adjustable needles, and it IS a Canadian version of the 650G. Hopefully that means I don't have to use washers in place of the spacer....but I digress.

 

[MisterCinders]

Thank you gentlemen.


Eric: I have yet to tear the carbs down, but when I install the jets, I'll have a look to see if I have the Canadian needles. I just saw in another thread that the Canadian-spec'd carbs came with adjustable needles, and it IS a Canadian version of the 650G. Hopefully that means I don't have to use washers in place of the spacer....but I digress.

Wait so you've never cleaned these carbs and want short circuit changing needles and floats on the bike??

Just pull the carbs and do full strip and dip.

 

[Guest]

I've pulled off the float bowls lots of times while on the bike, both with JIS screws and with allen head screws. Of course the two inner carbs are the hardest but it can be done without too much cursing. The main thing is you've already had the screws out so they will easily come out again. Use a 1/4 ratchet with a philips head, you may need to hunt around for the correct length philips but it can be done. Canadian Tire is selling a little set of screw heads for a couple of bucks that are a bit longer than normal and work great for getting at the float bowls or adjusting the fuel screw. I've never tried to replace the main jet doing this, only readjust the float height, but I'm sure if you can get the float bowl off getting the main jet off will only be easier. Now take into mind this has all been done on a 78 100 and 79 850 where there is a 'ton' of space under the carbs, I'm not sure what space is under the carbs on your 650.

 

[BigD_83]

Wait so you've never cleaned these carbs and want short circuit changing needles and floats on the bike??

Just pull the carbs and do full strip and dip.

MisterCinders...

Perhaps "tear down" was the wrong choice of wording.

I have stripped and dipped these carbs three times, but I've never pulled the diaphragm unit apart completely. No need to do that in a carb cleaning. It wasn't until I put the new header on that there was any need to pay much attention to the needles, other than they were straight, with no burrs, and moved up and down correctly. I just found out about the "Canadian" carbs, and hadn't noticed any notches before.

I got some new jets from Eric, and they have to go in, hence, I'm pulling the carbs tonight, and will get to look to see if the needles are in fact adjustable.

 

[Steve]

MisterCinders...

Perhaps "tear down" was the wrong choice of wording.

I have stripped and dipped these carbs three times, but I've never pulled the diaphragm unit apart completely. No need to do that in a carb cleaning. ...

Sorry, but you are SERIOUSLY mis-informed.

To do a PROPER carb cleaning, you need to completely submerge the carb body and leave it submerged for about 24 hours. You need to remove the diaphragm AND the "choke" plunger to do the job properly.

There are small passages in the carb body that can NOT be submerged properly unless the diaphragm and "choke" plunger are removed.

By the way, this is probably why you have had to do the job three times.

.

 

[tkent02]

I do it all the time, the right tool helps. You can change pilot and main jets, adjust floats, all of it.

On a bike where the carbs come off easy like an 850 it's easier to pull them, on an 1100E or 550 where pulling the carbs is a bitch, do it on the bike.

If you haven't done the whole carb cleaning routine, they must come off.

 

[BigD_83]

Sorry, but you are SERIOUSLY mis-informed.

To do a PROPER carb cleaning, you need to completely submerge the carb body and leave it submerged for about 24 hours. You need to remove the diaphragm AND the "choke" plunger to do the job properly.

There are small passages in the carb body that can NOT be submerged properly unless the diaphragm and "choke" plunger are removed.

By the way, this is probably why you have had to do the job three times.

.

Hey Steve,

I have done that. Completely, by the book, all three times. The carb cleaning tutorial on here is excellent, and it made a world of difference the first time I did it. The stern warnings and competent advice from everyone showed me the necessity of it. I think I did the first cleaning within two weeks of getting the bike home.

The second time came in the fall when it was running like crum again. I discovered backed out pilot jets in a couple of the carbs, and decided to clean them (edit- the carbs) while I had them off. The third was this spring when I had been away for awhile and I found some sediment in the bottom of the bowls. Figured it couldn't hurt to clean them again.

I must be offering up poorly worded explanations because I'm just not familiar with the anatomy of the "adjustable" (i.e. clip ring, maybe e-ring) and "non-adjustable" (i.e. need to remove the spacer and replace with washers) needles. The exploded parts diagrams just don't show what I think people are talking about.

I think my english skills must have taken a serious hit at work today. When I say break down the diaphragm I am talking about removing the spacer, the clip ring, etc to get at the needle for either shimming it or setting the needle clip.

Its not a big deal to me. I do need to put in the main jets anyhow, and I'll just pull a diaphragm to see if I can see any notches

 

[BigD_83]

I decided to just pull the carbs to do it. There isn't enough room to work under the bowls with the tools I have on hand. Getting them off isn't a problem, it's making sure all of the boots are well placed in putting them back on that is the hard part.

Put in the 115s in place of the 110s.

Turns out I couldn't check on the needles. The circlip was too deep for me to get. I'll have to get some extra long circlip pliers to take the diaphragm assemblies apart.

Next up...figure out why the throttle is hanging up now and plug chops.

 

[BigD_83]

This is what I was talking about in breaking down the diaphragm. I had never taken the slide diaphragms apart to this point:

Turns out they ARE adjustable

 

[gearhead13]

You have Canadian carbs with adjustable needles. There should not be a cap over the mixture adjustment screw either. I used a modified set of needle nose pliers for getting the circlips out, cheaper than a special tool.

 

[Guest]

I'll just chime in and say this is a piece of pie on my 450... can easily drop the float bowls and do the pilots, mains, and float adjustments.

I think with the tank off I could probably get the needles out too.

I've replaced all the carb screws with stainless allen socket heads though (and liberal amounts of anti seize).

 

[MisterCinders]

I'll just chime in and say this is a piece of pie on my 450...

With only two carbs, how could it not be?

 

[tom203]

Big D_83;
I wasn't worried about how you cleaned carbs! terminology gets confusing at times. Plus almost every day sees a new guy who claims to have clean carbs, when all he did was pop off bowls , blast with Gumout and pronounce them spotless.

 

[BigD_83]

I'll just chime in and say this is a piece of pie on my 450... can easily drop the float bowls and do the pilots, mains, and float adjustments.

I think with the tank off I could probably get the needles out too.

I've replaced all the carb screws with stainless allen socket heads though (and liberal amounts of anti seize).

Hey Pete,

thanks for speaking up. I have no doubt the 400/450s and smaller bikes would be a breeze compared to the 550/650. Suzuki really crammed these carbs into a tight space.

I've been following your thread for awhile as I had been looking at a pair of 450s last summer for the girlfriend and myself, until she made it clear that wasn't an option last year. You've been doing some nice work, and I'm a little jealous of your fabrication skills.

 

[FLHGSRay]

I just pulled the #2 bowl, float, and float valve on my 1000. It wasn't easy, but it was easier than pulling the carbs. The hardest part was holding the valve in while reinstalling the float and pin. Ended up putting a big glob of grease on the valve to hold it. I would do it like that again.