Dumb question - airbox connection to carbs?

[exzachtly1]

So I just finished cleaning my carbs a few days ago. Got the bike all put back together and the first ride it seemed to be running SO much better.

Second ride the next day ... not so much. Was noticing a few symptoms:

• Tough to get it happy at low idle (1200rpm)
• Dropping idle, stalling at stops. Had to rev a bit to keep it alive at stop signs until it got nice and warmed up.
• Idle increasing to nearly 2k rpm after hot (when parked in neutral)

So I poked around - and found a very obvious problem that I think is causing most of these issues. The airbox was not properly connected to 2 of the 4 carbs... like it had slipped off at the bottom. There was a gap there. This may seem like a dumb problem but I can't seem to get a good connection with the clamps. Every time I think It's on there, it seems like it will probably just vibrate off again after riding. Could have sworn I had them on there nice and tight at first.



Any tips for connecting these things so they won't budge? Has anyone else experienced this issue?

 

[Frank Z.]

Sounds like it's time for new carb boots. If they are hard --as in week old bagel hard-- it will be tough to retain good connection. Some folks have had success in soaking old boots in ATF to get them soft again.

 

[exzachtly1]

Sounds like it's time for new carb boots. If they are hard --as in week old bagel hard-- it will be tough to retain good connection. Some folks have had success in soaking old boots in ATF to get them soft again.

Do you mean new intake boots? Or boots for the airbox side? The intake boots seemed OK to me when I had them off but maybe they are compounding the problem.

 

[Guest]

I think he meant air box boots, if those are the ones that are slipping off.

 

[Frank Z.]

Yessir, airbox-to-carb boots. Are they soft 'n supple... or stiff 'n hard? (PG-13 comment)

 

[exzachtly1]

I think he meant air box boots, if those are the ones that are slipping off.

Gotcha. I guess I didn't realize these were replaceable parts - looking at the fiche now, would i need 2x of part #2, and 2x of part #3 to replace these? It's hard to tell from the picture...

I'll try again before I replace, they did seem pretty pliable still to me. Only other weird thing I noticed was that the inner metal rings seemed like they had slipped out of place on a couple of them. Would this cause a problem? Here's a pic:

 

[exzachtly1]

Yessir, airbox-to-carb boots. Are they soft 'n supple... or stiff 'n hard? (PG-13 comment)

Hahaha, pretty sure they'd be considered soft n' supple. They seemed to flex quite a bit when I was putting the carbs back on. I also think I might have pushed the airbox too far back onto the main connection to the filter box (not sure on the terminology here ), then tightened it, thus not allowing enough slack to pull it forward onto the carbs.

I'll have to play around when I get home. And double check that the rubber is in good shape.

 

[Frank Z.]

Ah-ha... Therein lies your problem. The split-rings need to be seated correctly. Sort of a bear to work 'em in, but that's what you need to do:

I've had luck by compressing the rings enough to overlap the split ends (about .25"), hold together with needle nose pliers or forceps, then place into boot grooves (lubricant, small screwdriver, and choice words will help). IIRC, the split in the ring should only have a couple mm's gap when nested properly. The boots will now be sealed to porthole edges in airbox.

And, yes, the boots you indicated on fiche are what you'll need if yours are rock hard. Good luck!

 

[exzachtly1]

Ah-ha... Therein lies your problem. The split-rings need to be seated correctly. Sort of a bear to work 'em in, but that's what you need to do:

I've had luck by compressing the rings enough to overlap the split ends (about .25"), hold together with needle nose pliers or forceps, then place into boot grooves (lubricant, small screwdriver, and choice words will help). IIRC, the split in the ring should only have a couple mm's gap when nested properly. The boots will now be sealed to porthole edges in airbox.

And, yes, the boots you indicated on fiche are what you'll need if yours are rock hard. Good luck!

Excellent, thank you for your advice. Guess it's time to take the airbox off when I get home! Hopefully I won't have to remove the carbs to do it

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

During reassembly make sure all of the surfaces are clean. Any grease or oil may allow the boots to slip off the carbs. Make sure the airbox is properly positioned. You may also want to replace the O-clamps because thay can get stretched by years of over-tightening.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[exzachtly1]

Hi,

During reassembly make sure all of the surfaces are clean. Any grease or oil may allow the boots to slip off the carbs. Make sure the airbox is properly positioned. You may also want to replace the O-clamps because thay can get stretched by years of over-tightening.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

I was thinking that the clamps may be stretched. Is OEM the only viable choice for these if I find it to be an issue?

 

[koolaid_kid]

There are two issues with going aftermarket clamps:
First, OEM clamps are quite narrow. Doubt you will be able to find aftermarket units that narrow.
Second, most aftermarket clamps are the screw type, with grooves cut into them. These grooves will cut into your rubber, which is a bad thing.

 

[exzachtly1]

There are two issues with going aftermarket clamps:
First, OEM clamps are quite narrow. Doubt you will be able to find aftermarket units that narrow.
Second, most aftermarket clamps are the screw type, with grooves cut into them. These grooves will cut into your rubber, which is a bad thing.

Roger that. I'll see if I'm still having an issue and order new OEM ones if needed.

 

[jace09]

I am having to go through my air box as well, though i have a lot more issues then you have with yours. I am jealous by the way, i wish mine was in as good of condition as yours. Anyway to my question...

Those inner rings for the air box boots, are they there to help seal the boot to the box? Or do they go over where the boots connect to the carbs?

Mine is all torn up and when you look at my thread you will see what i mean.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=199828

Thanks!

 

[exzachtly1]

I'll let someone else answer that since I'm new to this too - but the rings seem to be for helping to connect the boot to the airbox body. I don't think the carbs slide into them... could be wrong.

Also if you look at this fiche it seems that my airbox is quite a bit simpler than yours. Good luck man! Let me know how it turns out. Yours seems to have quite a few more parts

 

[exzachtly1]

Ugh... feeling pretty frustrated by this. I pulled everything out tonight. Fixed the way the ring was seated inside the airbox boot; only one of them seemed wrong. Then I tried to connect everything back together - the operative word being tried. Fought the airbox boots for about an hour trying to get all of them to seat on the carb all the way - but no matter what I did, I could not get all 4 evenly seated. Ended up having the outer two (1 and 4) connected just right, then couldn't get the middle ones. Then I tried the middle ones first and I couldn't get #4 on. It seems that it's just impossible to get all 4 of them on right at the same time and I don't know why. Here's what I ended up with - you're looking at 2 and 3 not being seated correctly (barely on there):

And of course I still have the increasing idle issue. Started at 1200 and within a few minutes of warming up it was at 1500-1600. Could this type of a connection problem cause an issue that severe?

Now, I checked the rubber on the boots and they seem good. Nice and flexible. I don't really want to spend the 60 bucks on new boots + clamps if I don't have to, only to find out that the airbox is deformed or something. It didn't look like it to me but now I'm wondering if that might be the case.

Is this supposed to be this difficult? What the heck am I doing wrong

And another question, just to be sure - those copper rings inside the throat of the boots, are they supposed to be in that interior channel or right inside the opening (flush with the part that connects to the carbs)?? I assume that having them right where the carbs connect would not make a good connection, but just wanted to double check. They seemed to be in the right place.

 

[exzachtly1]

Had a thought that maybe I'm going about it wrong, too. Maybe it would be better to disconnect the intake side and push the carbs into the airbox, rather than pushing the airbox into the carbs???

 

[Frank Z.]

Hang in there, man. You are where i was about a year ago... wrasslin' with the airbox thing. There are a few seasoned forum members in your area that could give you a hand with stuff. Nothing like 4 eyes and 4 hands working on the old gals, esp. someone with experience. Hello Ohio folks???

 

[koolaid_kid]

Slipping the carbs into both the airbox and the intake boots is nothing short of an art form. It takes time, patience and practice. Understand one fundamental concept, however. You absolutely MUST have them all the way on, for all 4 carbs, on both the airbox and the intake side, or it will run lean (high idle). When you get frustrated with it, just walk away for a while.
Probably the worst is the 1100E, and I got mine down to less than half an hour. That is how tough they can be.

 

[bwringer]

Your airbox may be warped a bit. Are the inner boots ending up on the same plane as the outers, or is the plastic of the airbox sort of sagging in the middle?

On a certain GS1100E (hey, koolaid...!), we struggled with the airbox quite a while until I had the idea to use a piece of wood to push on the inside of the airbox in the middle in order to seat the inner clamps. The owner ended up ordering a new airbox from Suzuki to fix the problem more or less permanently.

However, I think it is possible that you could heat up a plastic airbox carefully with a heat gun and very very carefully and gently push it back into shape.

Also, new airbox boots will astonish you with the difference -- even if the old ones still seem flexible, they shrink by a surprising amount over the years. When you get the new ones, you may even be upset thinking that you got the wrong parts, because they're 1/3 larger than the old ones.

One last trick: if you find that one of your airbox boots folded over at the lip and warped, you can reshape it with a heat gun. I used an old bearing that happened to be the same diameter as the carb, but a piece of pipe or socket would work. I slowly heated the boot and worked it back into shape until I could clamp it onto the bearing. After it cooled, it was good as new.