Dumped a bike...

[73dart]

It wasn't the GS I dumped, but I usually ride a GS...

I've had my license for about 5 (owned a bike for 3) months, and have put around 2500 miles on my '82 gs550L. I acquired a '93 Kawasaki Ninja a few weeks ago, and had about 200 miles on it, when I decided a scenic tour of north GA was in order.

The trip began Friday morning; I left from Marietta, going through Woodstock, Ellijay, McCaysville, Tennessee, to Blairsville and stayed the night... about 180 miles ridden, uneventful and beautiful. I wake up Saturday morning, ride to Murphy, NC, take the scenic route (Old 64) back down to Hiawassee, GA. My intention was to ride alternate 75 and then GA 348 (very curvy mtn roads), but I get about 12 miles down 17/75 and dumped the Ninja (12 miles from Helen, too - life flight country)... It was a real nice banked curve going up a mountain. I picked a line, leaned into it, kept the throttle steady... and kept leaning till I hit the ground at around 50mph. It rubbed a hole through my leathers, but I got up and ran (from traffic) from the crash. I knew I was riding aggressively, but I didn't think it was that aggressive. Fortunately for me, I don't have much more than a skinned knee and a few small bruises to show for it, but I was real lucky. Another biker died on the same curve about a week before me.

I'm not really sure what I did wrong - my 2 theories are 1) I should've gone 5-10 mph slower through the curve (50mph on a 20mph marked curve) or 2) should've picked my ass up off the seat and stuck it farther into the curve to shift the CG. I think either one of the 2 would have prevented the low-side, but slowing down before I started to lean was the smarter option. Live and learn.

I'm still riding my GS to work, but the Kaw needs a pickup coil and cover before it's ready to roll again. I hope to have it running again in a week or so, but in the meantime, I'd like to think I'm a slightly wiser rider - set your entry speed appropriately and pay attention to the "suggested speed" signs...

 

[mriddle]

Sounds like your ride was going so well .. but you are fortunate that you walked away. And you had a GS to go home to \\/.


Ride safe

Mike

 

[TheCafeKid]

Say riddle..you and your boy down for the dragon this spring/summer??

 

[mriddle]

We don't want to hijack 73dart's thread here .. but this looks promising http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=116565&highlight=robbinsville

Mike

 

[TheCafeKid]

my bad 73dart...im AWFUL for that...riddle i checked that out...ill talk to you more about it another time...

TCK

 

[tkent02]

pay attention to the "suggested speed" signs...

Those suggested speed signs have nothing to do with what speed is safe for you. You were just going way too fast for a beginner who knows nothing about cornering.
Learn to ride. Happy you were not hurt. This time.

 

[spyug]

Sorry to hear of your spill but glad to know you are ok and have learned something.

With new riders, figuring entry speeds, lane position, lean angles are the toughest things. Even years into it can be difficult, especially on new stretches of road. As you know, this is not very well covered in MSF courses and for many of us (like yourself) it is a trial and error thing. The two biggest issues seem to be excessive entry speed and incorrect lane position. Both can be killers.

Two things I would recommend get and study David L. Hough's books "Proficient Motorcycling" (2 books), "Ride Hard Ride Smart" by Pat Hahn and "Total Control" by Lee Parks. A wealth of knowledge and good practical sense for motorcyclists. I've had the books for three or four years and read them over at least once a year (usually over winter). I would also recommend attending a track day seminar or two to learn the finer points of bike control.

Statistically the first year of riding is the most dangerous but the years that follow can be a problem as well since the rider becomes more at ease and in lots of cases over confident in their skills.

My advice slow down, read and practice the skills, leave the fancy stuff for the track.

As they say in the books, "Enjoy the ride".

Cheers,
Spyug.

 

[jbs80106]

Glad ur okay!

Glad ur okay!

It wasn't the GS I dumped, but I usually ride a GS...

I've had my license for about 5 (owned a bike for 3) months, and have put around 2500 miles on my '82 gs550L. I acquired a '93 Kawasaki Ninja a few weeks ago, and had about 200 miles on it, when I decided a scenic tour of north GA was in order....

Any prior riding experience or MSF class taken?

IMO 2500miles in 3 months is good! I did about the same last summer 2006 before my charging system crapped out again!!! I like the idea of your trip too. Sounds like you were familiar with the route which is good.

The trip began Friday morning; .....My intention was to ride alternate 75 and then GA 348 (very curvy mtn roads), but I get about 12 miles down 17/75 and dumped the Ninja (12 miles from Helen, too - life flight country)....

Not being familiar with the area, depending on traffic and time of day, the road could have had dew on it (I'm guessing not cold enough there yet for frost)....

It was a real nice banked curve going up a mountain. I picked a line, leaned into it, kept the throttle steady... and kept leaning till I hit the ground at around 50mph.....

Assumming clear, clean, dry pavement, 1 of 2 things happened. Either A) traction gave out as you leaned and the tires slid out from under you. Or B) you were leaned so far over that you dragged something (foot peg?) that didn't give causing the tires to break grip with the ground.

To investigate A, how old are the tires on ur '93 ninja? From what little I know about the sportbikes, the usually are equipped with some pretty sticky/soft tires to accomodate the speed and cornering capabilities. The tires could be old and still have lots of tread left on them, its possible the tires were too hard? Also, if you momentarily either let off on the throttle or subconsciously hit the brakes you can dramtically alter the grip of the tires on the road (its the physics of the bike slowing down and the weight transferring from the center of the bike towards the front tire -- can cause the back to loose traction). Only other thing I can think of is maybe you hit a patch of sand/gravel or oil/deiselfuel on the road that you didn't see.

Might be harder (and less likely?) that it was B. I've never dragged anything in a corner but I asked this question at MSF class. On my GS, the footpegs are all spring loaded and they said the peg should 'give' before the tires do...but I have not experienced it before....

It rubbed a hole through my leathers, but I got up and ran (from traffic) from the crash. I knew I was riding aggressively, but I didn't think it was that aggressive. Fortunately for me, I don't have much more than a skinned knee and a few small bruises to show for it, but I was real lucky. Another biker died on the same curve about a week before me.

I'm not really sure what I did wrong - my 2 theories are 1) I should've gone 5-10 mph slower through the curve (50mph on a 20mph marked curve) or 2) should've picked my ass up off the seat and stuck it farther into the curve to shift the CG. I think either one of the 2 would have prevented the low-side, but slowing down before I started to lean was the smarter option. Live and learn....

Well done on having your gear on. The Road-Rash would have been much much worse!!!

I think you're line thru the corner might reveal if you were going too fast for the curve. If you were running too tight (leaned too far) or running wide (not leaning enough for your speed and the radius of the turn) then I would say it sounds like you were going too fast for the corner. But if your corner was going text-book (outside-inside-outside) then your apex should have been okay for your speed and the turn and I would look at your tires sliding out from under you. Either slipping on something or the tires need to be replaced.

ALWAYS good to SLOW before the turn, pick your line, lean and then you can roll on as much throttle as you need to smoothly make the turn. I would think its a pretty advanced technique to go into an unfamiliar corner (esp if its got limited vis around the corner) without scrubbing off some speed first and assessing the situation. But once more, I think your line would have been wrong if you were going too fast and didn't plan your corner well enough.

Sounds like you've learned something. And thanks for sharing! We can all learn from each others experiences.

- set your entry speed appropriately and pay attention to the "suggested speed" signs...

Always better to play it safer but the posted signs are applicable for cars/trucks that don't have the cornering abilities of a motorcycle. But err on the side of caution especially if you aren't familiar with the turn....

 

[Regis]

....
or 2) should've picked my ass up off the seat and stuck it farther into the curve to shift the CG. I think either one of the 2 would have prevented the low-side, but slowing down before I started to lean was the smarter option. Live and learn.

...

Glad you're OK! It's funny that you bring up #2, as I am in a similiar situation to you, just having got my GS1100E a few months ago. I was cruising through some tight mountain twisties in our area on Saturday and while going through the first few corners, I decided to do just that and I got my butt moving around on the seat, dropping it down, just a little bit and getting the feel for it. It is different and kind of scary at first, because you're not firmly planted in the seat and that feeling of stability lost, is hard to overcome. I found out that there is a pretty good effect to moving on the seat and it worked better than I thought it would, but now I have to get comfortable with the more 'active' working of the bike, versus, just sitting on it and going through the curve. Any of the more experienced GS members, please feel free to add your thoughts as there's always lots to learn here and I'm still a returning newbie (I was much more ballsy when I was in my 20's, but now that I'm 48, I've experienced 'huevo shrinkage').

 

[earlfor]

Hanging off can increase the cornering speeds. Its my observation however that for 99% of riders, it does not. That 99% do it to for looks. Generally, I can sit upright through the curves in my touring stance and stay with anyone hanging off and dragging their knees. If you are truly going fast enough that hanging off is required, you're going foolishly fast on a public road. Life is going to provide some surprises you're not going to like or be able to counter.

Earl

Saturday and while going through the first few corners, I decided to do just that and I got my butt moving around on the seat, dropping it down, just a little bit and getting the feel for it. It is different and kind of scary at first, because you're not firmly planted in the seat and that feeling of stability lost, is hard to overcome. I found out that there is a pretty good effect to moving on the seat and it worked better than I thought it would, but now I have to get comfortable with the more 'active' working of the bike, versus, just sitting on it and going through the curve. Any of the more experienced GS members, please feel free to add your thoughts as there's always lots to learn here and I'm still a returning newbie (I was much more ballsy when I was in my 20's, but now that I'm 48, I've experienced 'huevo shrinkage').

 

[8trackmind]

Two things I would recommend get and study David L. Hough's books "Proficient Motorcycling" (2 books), "Ride Hard Ride Smart" by Pat Hahn and "Total Control" by Lee Parks.

Good choices all.
I would also like to add Keth Code's "A Twist of the Wrist" as a must read as well.

 

[bonanzadave]

having got my GS1100E a few months ago.

Regis, listen to Earl. If its any thing like mine youll be making sparks off the center stand & pegs and then your about 1/2 way there. You dont need the body english to do that. If you have good warm tires and clean asphalt it will go through the curves about as fast as a 48 year old guy should go. For me, its all about countersteer control.

now that I'm 48, I've experienced 'huevo shrinkage').

Right behind ya bro.........:-D

 

[spyug]

I was going to mention the Keith code books as well but I find they are more oriented to racing than street. Mind you, there are some very good ideas in them about line selection and turn apexes and the like. All stuff you can (and should )apply to the street

When it comes right down to it all information is helpful. Knowledge is like money in the bank....you can never have too much. I personally will read anything on the subject of riding and I particularly enjoy the street riding tips you find in many of the mags. You never know when one little tidbit of info sticks in your head and turns out to be a life safer.

Thanks for mentioning it 8track.

cheers all,
Spyug.

 

[Regis]

Hanging off can increase the cornering speeds. Its my observation however that for 99% of riders, it does not. That 99% do it to for looks. Generally, I can sit upright through the curves in my touring stance and stay with anyone hanging off and dragging their knees. If you are truly going fast enough that hanging off is required, you're going foolishly fast on a public road. Life is going to provide some surprises you're not going to like or be able to counter.

Earl

Thank you Earl and BonanzaDave for the wisdom. I sure wasn't trying it for the looks, just carefully experimenting and I appreciate your thoughts on this (like Spyug said, knowledge is money in the bank, or keeping our hides intact!). I think I'll just stick to keeping my butt planted in the seat.:mrgreen:

 

[8trackmind]

I was going to mention the Keith code books as well but I find they are more oriented to racing than street.

They are.
Single vehicle crash at 50 MPH in a corner sounds like racing to me. :-D

 

[MissFabulous]

I have no interest in racing, but I got a LOT out of reading Twist of the Wrist I & II. All the same basic principles. Thanks to a member here, I have digital copies of them both. Anyone interested, PM me with your email addy and i will do for you what has been done for me :-D

 

[earlfor]

Just ride in a position that is comfortable to you. If you feel you are more precise and in control, go ahead and hang off. Any speed gains are going to come from precision, control and smoothness rather than which part of the seat you sit on. hehehe

Earl

Thank you Earl and BonanzaDave for the wisdom. I sure wasn't trying it for the looks, just carefully experimenting and I appreciate your thoughts on this (like Spyug said, knowledge is money in the bank, or keeping our hides intact!). I think I'll just stick to keeping my butt planted in the seat.:mrgreen:

 

[KiwiGS]

What happened in the lowside?
Did it let go front first, back first or both together?
Was the road smooth or were there ripples?
I had I ZXR7 for a wee while and even at a constant throttle and lean the rear used to skip under load. I softened the rear shock a little bit and it helped alot.

 

[Steveb64]

It wasn't the GS I dumped, but I usually ride a GS...

I've had my license for about 5 (owned a bike for 3) months, and have put around 2500 miles on my '82 gs550L. I acquired a '93 Kawasaki Ninja a few weeks ago, and had about 200 miles on it, when I decided a scenic tour of north GA was in order.

Snip'd

I'm not really sure what I did wrong - my 2 theories are 1) I should've gone 5-10 mph slower through the curve (50mph on a 20mph marked curve) Snip'd
I hope to have it running again in a week or so, but in the meantime, I'd like to think I'm a slightly wiser rider - set your entry speed appropriately and pay attention to the "suggested speed" signs...

Not having ridden in the US, I can't comment on how good your 'suggested speed' signs are - but if they're anything like ours, then here's my method:

Look at sign, convert MPH to KPH - (20mph=35kph, 30mph=50kph, 40mph=65kph, 50mph=80kph, 60mph=95kph, 70mph=110kph - approximately...), then call the kph value a mph value - and that's your recommended speed for the corner (for fast-ish relaxed cruising). Thus, if your corner was posted at 20mph, you should have slowed to around 35mph...

If you're in a hurry - or very fast cruise, and have some more experience, just double the recommended speed... still would have you down to 40mph...:-D

Faster is still possible, but clock up some more miles, and try and get an advanced course if you can, before going quite so fast.8-[

An advanced method is 'rear wheel steering' - which I learned on my GSX11, on a particularly tight hill road (the Rimutakas) in NZ - by running in too fast, starting to go wide, then figuring "I CAN'T brake - it'll just stand up and go wider, into the oncoming traffic lane - ARRGH - GAS IT!", grabbed a handful of throttle, and just about siht myself as the bike carved through the inside of the corner! Basically, it just spun up the back wheel into a power slide, which changed the whole angle and line through the corner. It got to be a bit of a habit - so much so, that when I got the Ducati, I had to re-learn my riding style (to more like a 250), as I didn't have the horsepower any more. More traction and ground clearance though! 8^)

 

[earlfor]

That works for me too. Sometimes, when you're into the turn too hot and running wide, what you need is more power. Although, I have said this previously, no one believed me and I was considered to be nuts. LOL As you say though, it is not something for a new rider to be trying. You also have to be going faster than is legal. eheheh

Earl