Dyna S timing question 78 gs1000

[MAC10]

I have a Dyna S ignition I am trying to install. I have the red wire connected to the Orange/White coil wire. It shows 13 volts, identical to the battery. All connections are clean, and I have triple checked everything
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The timing instructions say"...connect a 12 volt test light from the junction of the white coil wires to ground(engine case)

Where is this, what do they mean? I understand clipping the test light to ground, but where is this junction of white coil wires? I notice one white wire on the face of the dyna s plate, connecting to the bottom of the left hand pickup, but that is all.

I have never done this before, and am confused. Of course, dyna does not provide a photo or a detailed description.

Help is welcome.

 

[byegge]

you connect the lead to the wire where it connects to the coil and to the ground. you would set timing for 1and 4 and then put the lead on the other coil for 2/3

 

[MAC10]

Thanks Byegge,

That means not at the dyna plate, but at the coil connections, right?

 

[posplayr]

Thanks Byegge,

That means not at the dyna plate, but at the coil connections, right?

Yes at the coil; you will notice that the coil (-) goes up (13V) and down (>1 volt) with the rotation of the engine. At the instant that the light goes on, the coil should fire.

read a description here.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1871868&postcount=11

 

[MAC10]

Thanks Posrplayer,

I have my test light probe inside the white coil wire tube for 1 and 4, and the alligator clip grounded on the block. I rotate the engine clockwise, holding the rotor all the way right, until the light comes on. So far so good.

There are no timing marks on the engine case on my 78 gs1000C that I can see. Is this particular to this bike? Now what?

The hole is in about the 11 oclock position, as illustrated by many photos here.

There is a brass partial plate which fitted under the old points plate-is it needed to install the dyna? There are no marks on it in any case.

 

[MAC10]

78 GS1000C timing marks

78 GS1000C timing marks

Duh. The timing mark on my bike is on a separate c shaped shim stock plate which bolts under the Dyna S , or stock, ignition plate. The mark itself is in a recess of the stamped plate There are no marks on the actual engine case. So, don't lose that part. You will need it.

Also note that no one mentions this, including the Dyna instructions. No wonder it was confusing. I have never encountered an engine without timing marks where they are permanent and integral to the block. What were they thinking.

Now I have that figured out, the timing instructions should be straightforward(cough)

 

[posplayr]

Thanks Posrplayer,

I have my test light probe inside the white coil wire tube for 1 and 4, and the alligator clip grounded on the block. I rotate the engine clockwise, holding the rotor all the way right, until the light comes on. So far so good.

There are no timing marks on the engine case on my 78 gs1000C that I can see. Is this particular to this bike? Now what?

The hole is in about the 11 oclock position, as illustrated by many photos here.

There is a brass partial plate which fitted under the old points plate-is it needed to install the dyna? There are no marks on it in any case.

I'm more familiar with the 16V which has the timing marks on the mechanical advance. Remember the coil fires both on TDC and BDC (wasted exhaust spark)

You only rotate the advance if you want to static time at the advanced mark, other wise I would let the advance remain in it's neutral (un advanced) position to static time.

 

[MAC10]

Success-dyna s static timed

Success-dyna s static timed

I just finished my first install and static time of a dyna s. Used advance timing marks as in the written instructions. Bike fired up, for first time since stored last summer. Will thoroughly test it tomorrow with the airbox installed.

I have a timing light and will check it thoroughly. This job is slightly fiddly, but not really hard, once understood. Written instructions as supplied are not great, but help from GSR sure is. Thanks to everyone.

Next task once ignition is running, is to test the new stator and Shindengen SH775 just installed, to ensure charging system is to spec.

 

[Agemax]

I'm more familiar with the 16V which has the timing marks on the mechanical advance. Remember the coil fires both on TDC and BDC (wasted exhaust spark)

You only rotate the advance if you want to static time at the advanced mark, other wise I would let the advance remain in it's neutral (un advanced) position to static time.

the coil does not fire at BDC. it only fires at TDC on both cylinders (1+4 or 2+3)
wasted spark means it will fire on the exhaust stroke as well, so when #1 is at TDC firing on the compression stroke, #4 will also fire on the exhaust stroke.

 

[MAC10]

Question for posrplayer-does it make a performance difference if the dyna is timed on the advance mark, or on the neutral mark?

 

[Guest]

No it doesn't make any performance difference. I have always used a timing light to set the module plate on 1-4 and slip the module on 2-3 to the respective timing marks at idle. Give it throttle and it will read dead on the advance marks if the advance is working correctly and you are not reading any parallax when you line up the marks. I suppose the static method gets you in the ball park to start the bike easier, but I am more comfortable lining the timing marks up with a timing light. It is probably no more accurate than the static method but It makes me more confident that I got it right.

 

[posplayr]

the coil does not fire at BDC. it only fires at TDC on both cylinders (1+4 or 2+3)
wasted spark means it will fire on the exhaust stroke as well, so when #1 is at TDC firing on the compression stroke, #4 will also fire on the exhaust stroke.

Yep, corn fused myself there.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=168652&highlight=firing+order

 

[posplayr]

No it doesn't make any performance difference. I have always used a timing light to set the module plate on 1-4 and slip the module on 2-3 to the respective timing marks at idle. Give it throttle and it will read dead on the advance marks if the advance is working correctly and you are not reading any parallax when you line up the marks. I suppose the static method gets you in the ball park to start the bike easier, but I am more comfortable lining the timing marks up with a timing light. It is probably no more accurate than the static method but It makes me more confident that I got it right.

Agreed, you can time it any way you like, but it is nice to confirm with the light that the advances hits the mark at the required RPM which you can only do with a timing light.

On my old 327 I got pretty good setting the initial advance so I rarely needed to change it after putting the timing light on. Easily withing a degree

 

[MAC10]

Fine tuning of Dyna S

Fine tuning of Dyna S

Thanks guys. You are helping me learn this thing thoroughly.

Tonight I got it running reasonably smoothly. 1-4 is dead on all through the range, 3-4 is a tad left of the mark at 2500 rpm. In order to get it right I had to adjust the position of the modules as I didn't have enough advance. Fiddly job getting the allen bolts loose and sliding the modules around until things worked out. There is not much room for adjustment. Tomorrow with a fresh brain I will fool around with 3-4 to get it dead on. A timing light is essential- glad I bought one when I bought the bike.

My bike takes 5 minutes to get good and warm before it loses its customary rattles and knocks. Once warm it sounds smooth. I waited for a warm condition before adjusting the idle to a steady 1200 rpm, then I could hear the benefit of an electronic ignition.

Am I missing any tricks to make the fine tuning easier?

 

[posplayr]

Sounds like you are getting it. realize everybody else is doing it from memory. One you see the timing with the light you have it right.

 

[Guest]

I just timed mine because I had a module go bad and used another power module plate off a project bike. I did notice that the old plate when timed was almost to the screw stops turning the plate clockwise. The plate off the project bike timed with the screws slightly left of center of the slots giving more range, indicating to me that it might be possible to get a module plate from the factory where the 1-4 module might need to be adjusted slightly with the Allen screws to allow 2-3 the range to hit the timing mark. I will get a chance to see if there is any difference in positions of a third module plate on the same bike because Dynatek has offered to replace my out of warranty module plate for cost and I need this current borrowed plate back on the project bike. You certainly have all the information you need now to do a perfect job of timing it. Then you can forget about it, it won't change. You might want to mark the plate and motor case. You never know if you will have to remove it for some reason. I used my mark to gestimate the new plate position and it was close enough for the bike to fire right up.

 

[MAC10]

Dyna S knocking sound, 1 cylinder cuts out over 2000

Dyna S knocking sound, 1 cylinder cuts out over 2000

So, I have the dyna s working perfectly as far as timing goes. Using a timing light I tweaked it so both marks are perfectly aligned at idle, and within a hair at 2500 rpm. Sounds smooth at idle, but...

There is a rythmic knocking sound at idle, which diminishes at higher rpm. I have a video which I will post here showing it clearly. Mind you, I haven`t run the bike yet to full warmup-I will do so tomorrow on a test ride.

In testing the dyna s I ran the timing light on all four high tension leads. I noticed on number one cylinder the timing light cuts out at about 2000 rpm. I wiggled it around to see if it was a weird connection, but that made no difference. The other three show normal timing light function all the way up as far as I went, around 4000 rpm. There is no change in engine sound or rpm, or performance that I could notice. So, do I have a bad coil or bad lead on number one. I planned to replace the coils and leads anyway, just not til next month.

Comments and suggestions are welcome

 

[MAC10]

Knocking sound solved

Knocking sound solved

I figured it out. The knocking is cam end float. Sounds identical to videos posted on this site. So, nothing to worry about, especilly as it goes away when warm and revved. Bike has 550000 miles anyway, so there is some wear. No mechanical problems other than the normal gs noises.

Number one cylinder is tomorrows project.

 

[Guest]

Both terminals fire at the same time so it is probably the lead. If you still have the stock coils it's most likely the cap. It is hardly likely that the copper wire in the lead would go bad. It will screw off and you can snip off a little more than 1/4" and screw the cap back on. It's easier if you separate the center of the wire with an awl because the cap center is kind of blunt. If that doesn't work there are these: http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDetails.aspx?itemDescription=NGK+Spark+Plug+Cap+12mm+%26+10mm+102+degree+XD05F&item=TU38-1006

 

[MAC10]

Thanks everyone. I clipped the lead and reset the cap twice, second time cured it. New coils leads and caps later this summer.

Took the bike for a two hour highway ride today. Electronic ignition is very smooth through the rpm range right up to 7000.

Cam end float knocking sound disappears as engine warms, gone after 15 minutes, returns if engine is shut off for 10 minutes. I deliberately paid attention to it to see how long it took. Good to know what it is, and to not have to worry about it.