electrex questions

[lukehan]

The thrill of getting my bike running again (79' gs850) is being tempered by charging system problems. I purchased new electrex R/R and stator. Installed, everything seems fine. Went for the first short ride (20miles) got back, battery was low, I figure it is a bad battery (over a year old), tested voltage to battery at idle/up to 4k (didn't want to go higher due to just finished rebuilding). small change in voltage, but not as high as it should be, I assumed this was due to the bad battery. At this point I also did the AC voltage check between the different phases of the stator, checks ok. I get a new battery and put it in, once again, check all connections and make sure everything is wired up correctly. Go for a slightly longer ride. Still not charging. Check R/R, at first I think it is bad, but after checking the electrex web site determine it is ok. Then check stator, everything is fine except the AC voltage check now tops out at about 18V between each phase. I am completely baffled. I can't figure out what would have caused this. I have triple checked all connections and wire/fuses/fuse panel have all been replaced with new where possible. The only thing I can find that seems weird to me is that there is no continuity between the black ground wire from the R/R and the casing of the R/R, maybe this is normal. At this point I guess I am going to get a warranty replacement stator and try everything again. Anyone have any other ideas on what could be going on?

Luke

 

[earlfor]

Re: electrex questions

Doing a stator AC check at 5K rpm should produce around 80 volts.
Stator output is directly proportional to engine rpm. You said you were afraid to run the engine above 4k due to recent rebuild. At 4K rpm, stator output should be 64 volts. Since to do that check, the stator must be disconnected from the R/R, the R/R and battery condition have no bearing on the stator voltage. If you are only getting 18 volts AC at 4k rpm, the stator or rotor is faulty.

I would return the stator and R/R to Electrex and have them check/replace/warranty what needs to be. After that, if the replacement parts still offer no improvement, I would suspect the rotor.

Earl

The thrill of getting my bike running again (79' gs850) is being tempered by charging system problems. I purchased new electrex R/R and stator. Installed, everything seems fine. Went for the first short ride (20miles) got back, battery was low, I figure it is a bad battery (over a year old), tested voltage to battery at idle/up to 4k (didn't want to go higher due to just finished rebuilding). small change in voltage, but not as high as it should be, I assumed this was due to the bad battery. At this point I also did the AC voltage check between the different phases of the stator, checks ok. I get a new battery and put it in, once again, check all connections and make sure everything is wired up correctly. Go for a slightly longer ride. Still not charging. Check R/R, at first I think it is bad, but after checking the electrex web site determine it is ok. Then check stator, everything is fine except the AC voltage check now tops out at about 18V between each phase. I am completely baffled. I can't figure out what would have caused this. I have triple checked all connections and wire/fuses/fuse panel have all been replaced with new where possible. The only thing I can find that seems weird to me is that there is no continuity between the black ground wire from the R/R and the casing of the R/R, maybe this is normal. At this point I guess I am going to get a warranty replacement stator and try everything again. Anyone have any other ideas on what could be going on?

Luke

 

[lukehan]

Thanks, that is kind of what I am thinking as well. I don't think it is the rotor as it gave a pretty good pull (magnetic) when I was installing the stator. I am just bummed because I was hoping it would be a little longer before I had to start taking things apart again.

Luke

 

[earlfor]

I know what you mean. After a while, it gets old. Although electrex has been good to me, I did get one R/R from them a few years ago that was faulty. They replaced it no hassle though.

Earl

Thanks, that is kind of what I am thinking as well. I don't think it is the rotor as it gave a pretty good pull (magnetic) when I was installing the stator. I am just bummed because I was hoping it would be a little longer before I had to start taking things apart again.

Luke

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

As Earl said the stator MUST be disconnected from the reg to measure the voltage output

 

[lukehan]

Yes, I measured AC voltage between phases with the stator disconnected. I am guessing that it was just flakey from the start. I have started the process necessary to get a replacement.

Luke

 

[focus frenzy]

electrex is not what it used to be, they sold out and are now known as elctro sport and they suck big time, they bent me over and gave it to me raw. :evil: :evil:
pathetic customer service, by people who have no idea what they are doing, never again..

PS: any one want a useless brand new regulator?

 

[earlfor]

I installed a Ricks R/R on my 1150 when I was at the Asheville rally. I'm really happy with it. Seems like a good product. Dont know about customer support though, I havent had a problem.

Earl

electrex is not what it used to be, they sold out and are now known as elctro sport and they suck big time, they bent me over and gave it to me raw. :evil: :evil:
pathetic customer service, by people who have no idea what they are doing, never again..

PS: any one want a useless brand new regulator?

 

[lukehan]

I bought my stuff from Bike Bandit and they have been very helpful so far. They are taking care of the return to electrex. Hopefully I'll have better luck this time.

Luke

 

[lukehan]

I cannot explain in words the level of frustration I am feeling right now. I got my warranty replacement stator with no problems. I install it and I get the exact same problem, the AC voltage test between phases maxes out at about 18-20 V. The chances that I got two bad stators is pretty slim, I followed the stator papers immediately after installation of the new one and everything checks out OK except for the AC voltage test while running. So my only conclusion now is that somehow my rotor has lost it's magnetism. I checked when I had it all apart and a screwdriver still sticks to it, so there is some there, my guess is it is just weak. I have an engine from a 1980 GS850 that I guess I will raid for a replacement rotor, so thankfully I don't have to track one of those down, but it is such a hassle taking everything apart AGAIN. All this is rapidly beginning to look very bad for my planned vacation middle of august. My questions are these, What can cause a rotor to loose magnatism? And, what is involved with replacing one, I am sure I need some kind of puller, but what does it look like? And finally, does anyone have a cliff that I can drive this bike off if this doesn't work? If you have been following this thread you know that this rebuild has been a very long process for me and I have had 3 moments where I think, Finally, it is working, I can just ride. Only to find out something is not right. Oh, and did I mention I have a leaky petcock that I have to fix now too? I hope I'll feel better about this tomorrow.

Luke

 

[Poot]

good luck man.....I know how you feel



just try and relax, all though its near impossible. knock back a few cold ones, and it'll fix everything up.....until the next morning that is.


Poot

 

[NICK!]

It is highly unlikely that your rotor magnets have lost their magnetic strength, they are Alnico and this material was selected for this very reason. I did hear of this problem once and here's how the Suzuki tech rep found it. Take a wooden ruler and a good sized ball bearing, say about 3/8", with the rotor removed and facing down select one shoe, line the ruler up and push the ball bearing down the ruler and see at what distance the ball bearing flys and sticks to the magnet. Do this for each shoe and note the distance. The tech rep found one shoe without magnetisim. Yes, you need a rotor puller and they are not cheap and are also best used with a 1/2" air gun. Since your bike is obviously button starting ok the rotor can't be spinning on the taper, I would do a resistence check on the stator, this spec should be in the manual. There should also be no connection to ground. I'll bet they aren't making the stators right. Does the new stator look and measure exactly like your old one?

 

[NICK!]

I just reread your original post, the 79 still has a kick starter, does you bike electric start OK? If it just spins the rotor could be loose on the taper and would do exactly what your describing.

 

[lukehan]

I guess I will check to make sure the rotor is not loose. The stators both check out 100% ok according to both the electrex web site flow chart and the one on this web site, except for the ac voltage between phases when running. So, the only possibilities are 1. rotor has lost magnetism, 2. rotor spinning on end of crank (didn't consider this before as I have never dissasembled it and it was working fine before the rebuild). or 3. electrex is making stators incorrectly. To make a correction in my original post, I said that I had previously done a voltage check and that it had read ok, I was incorrect, looking back I was reading the wrong incriment on my multimeter, I have since double checked with another meter and the original meter and they all give the same result, about 18-20vac. I doubt electrex is making stators incorrectly and I also doubt that the rotor mysteriously loosened up during the rebuild as I never dissasembled that part and it had been working fine before the rebuild. This leaves me with loss of magnatism. I may try and do some tests comparing the rotor on my spare 80' engine with my 79' and see if I can figure anything out. I am also going to the local bike shop tomorrow to see what they think and see if they have the tools I need and can I borrow them etc. The bike starts fine both kick and button.

Luke

 

[lukehan]

I know my meters are ok, I have one analog and one digital, the digital does not allow you to remove the test leads and the analog only has one place for positive, one for negative. Both give the same results. Thanks for the suggestion.

Luke

 

[Steve]

Luke,

I am busy making a cliff right next to my house! :lol:

If you want, just bring your bike here and I will be happy to push it over when I am done. Of course, by the time I get done pushing some of MY vehicles over, it might not be a big enough fall.

ps. do you mind if I ride it a bit before I push it over? :roll:

 

[duaneage]

It is my understanding that the earleir GS bikes had a 10 pole stator and at some poiny Suzuki switched to to a 12 or 14 pole unit. Are you sure that you have the correct model stator for your bike? Did it look like the original with the same number of poles sticking out?

 

[jimcor]

I know my meters are ok, I have one analog and one digital, the digital does not allow you to remove the test leads and the analog only has one place for positive, one for negative. Both give the same results. Thanks for the suggestion.

Luke

whoops you must have read that seconds before I deleted it! I reread your previous post and saw where you mentioned the two meters.

Hope this works out quickly for you Luke, I know how the charging system can drive you crazy.

 

[lukehan]

well, it's been a while on this post, but I think I finally got things figured out. (I wish the rest of my life didn't get in the way of my motorcycles). I put my factory original stator back in and problem is solved! (I was just trying to beef up the stock system and it turns out the stock system works better!) Plenty of juice to charge up my battery. So I guess Electrex has it wrong with my bike, the package says the stator I have is for suzuki GS850 1979 (among other bikes) but I guess the windings are different on the Electrex model. So at this point I guess I am stuck with a basically brand new stator that is wrong for my bike. I am guessing I have had it too long to get any kind of return on it, esp. since it has been installed. Is anyone interested? I am assuming it is a good stator, just not for my bike (this is the 2nd electrex stator I got, both checked out fine except for the AC voltage between phases check which I now know is due to different windings, not bad stator) So, does anyone want to make me an offer? I can look to see what other bikes it says it should work with or offer more details/pictures if anyone wants them. I need to do some minor carb tweaking yet and some other minor things, but I think this project is basically done, now I can ride (with whats left of the season).

Luke

 

[jonr]

Luke,

Is that a G1 or a G2 stator? If it's a G2 (ESG020), I might make you an offer.

-Jon