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Electrical issues

  • Thread starter Thread starter nooblet
  • Start date Start date
N

nooblet

Guest
Hi, I used to be a member a while back but I stopped riding for a while and my registration ran out.

I have some electrical issues with my 86 GS550E, they have been since I owned the bike (about 4 years).

First problem, can't keep a battery in it but I am getting 14.53vdc at 5000 rpm's.

I was going to move on to the stator and R/R checks but that leads me to my second problem. The bike intermittently wont start. I will get on it, press the start button and try to start it. Sometimes it starts, sometimes I have nothing. I can hear the solenoid (right side under seat) clicking but that is it. Release the start button press it again and it will start (sometimes I have to do this several times). If I arc something between the starter solenoid to bypass the relay, it will turn over but still will not start. I have checked the neutral start switch, the start button and the engine stop switch. I have good ground to the frame and battery and have cleaned all connections. Not sure where to go next. Any help would be appreciated. (I did have it running the other day and it ran good, but then I started having these problems again once I shut it off.)
 
OK, I read thru the stator papers and just did the ohm test on my stator. I have .8 ohms across all three yellow wires. I can't do the AC voltage test because it will not start right now. It was running about 2 hours ago but now it will not start. I have a new battery, only 1 week old and it has 12.2 volts with bike off.

Since I can't start it I assumed the stator was good (will test it once the bike starts) and moved on to the R/R. I read absolutely no voltage on any of the wires during the diode test. Now, since it did not run would I see any voltage? I assume it is something like a capacitor as in it holds a charge for a period of time, but that charge dissipates over time?

Also, as I said before when I push the start button I can hear the starter solenoid clicking and the lights dim but that is it. Then other times it starts with no issues. Might temporarily rig up a new momentary switch as a start button just to try to rule that out.
 
New battery with only 12.2 volts ? didn't get fully charged yet and won't have much muscle, so charge it. Fully charged, you should get > 12.6 volts. That reading of 14.5 volts at 5k, is a hopeful sign. Unplug R/R to test its diodes- this in not very conclusive , but might spot a problem. Have you revisited Basscliff's site (follow the link)-lots of tips on starting problems,along with other common problems?
 
The battery did have a full charge in it, but since I have been running it while testing and adjusting stuff (clutch, idle etc) it is probably down because it is not charging correctly. As stated in my previous post, I did do the diode test on the R/R and got absolutely nothing on any of the wires, so is it safe to assume the R/R is dead or is there another test I can do without the bike running. (The battery is on a 2 amp trickle charger now).
 
nooblet said:
..
....
....I read absolutely no voltage on any of the wires during the diode test.
...
Click to expand...

Diode test is to be done with the R/R completely disconnected. ANd use "diode test" feature of meter. (not all meters have "diode test").
In the diode test function of the meter, does it go from some large number (or "OL") when the meter leads not touching, and then go to the zero when you touch the leads to the R/R? If so, then meter seems to be working and your R/R is not a R/R any more.
But yet you say you get good, real good, charging voltage. Hum.

About the starter:
If the solenoid clicks, then you know things are good with the starter button circuit (including the kill switch, and the clutch switch).
You say the starter turns when you jump the solenoid, so I suspect the solenoid.
I see postings where guys use a $10 solenoid meant for lawn tractor, but I have never done it.

.
.
 
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I used to travel and work on industrial manufacturing equipment so I have a very good Fluke Multi-Meter with the diode test function. I removed the R/R from the bike and tested it on a work bench. If I touch the two probes together it goes from 0L to .000 V When I tested the R/R it did not change at all. I also have seen where people have used a lawn tractor solenoid, so I may pick one up tomorrow and give that a shot. Once I can get the bike to start and run consistently I can check for AC voltage from my stator, and I geuss I need a new R/R as well. Does anyone have a recommendation for a specific lawn tractor solenoid? Or will any brand of them work?
 
Yeah, tractor solenoids work great.

I went to the dealership, and they wanted $80 for one, I almost hit the floor.
Went to Lowes and spent $12, lol.
 
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Nice tip on the tractor solenoid. ;)


Will it start with a jump?
Im just womderin...cuz if the rr is dead...that wont keep it from starting...just keep it from cjarging...no?
 
Make sure your diode testing is right. With meter in diode check function, put red probe on red wire in R/R plug, then one by one, touch black probe to stator spades (in same plug)- they should all come up "1" on the display( not conducting). Then, put red probe against black/white stripe wire ( R/R ground) and touch stator spade connections one by one. You should see a number like 500 to 700 in display for each- this represents the forward voltage drop of the diode in millivolts.I don't think you get 14.5 vdc charging if one of these diodes went bad.
 
First, no I have not jump started it. I am charging the battery. I tried to push start it and pop the clutch yesterday but that didn't work.


Next, I just tested the R/R again. In diode test with my red probe on the red wire from the R/R I get nothing, reads 0L so the state of the meter does not change at all. With the red probe on the blk/wht wire and touching each spade that goes to the stator I get .540, .552 and .557


Also, I picked up the solenoid from Lowe's today but it is quite different. It is the only style they had and it was $12.98 so I assumed it was the one everyone is talking about. There are the two studs for the battery connections, but neither one are marked. Then there is a spade plug which is grounded to the metal case. My original solenoid has a yel/grn wire and a blk/wht wire. How do I hook this one up or did my local store just not have the one I need?
 
Your R/R passes the diode test! "OL" on your meter means not conducting, most of the new cheapo meters say "1" when not conducting. But remember this test only proves the diodes are probably ok at rectifing the ac, the rest of the R/R has to control the dc output. Someone will show up and advise about solenoid. Original solenoid has black/white to ground it, while the yellow/green is positive trigger from starter button.
 
Ok thanks. You guys are great, only wish I could have done all this a couple years ago when I got it, but I traveled for work and didn't have the time. I was trying to get it fixed to sell it, but now I think I am going to keep it, or set it on fire and push it down the hill. LOL
 
nooblet said:
Ok thanks. You guys are great, only wish I could have done all this a couple years ago when I got it, but I traveled for work and didn't have the time. I was trying to get it fixed to sell it, but now I think I am going to keep it, or set it on fire and push it down the hill. LOL
Click to expand...
There must be something in between these choices! I think you should fix it and keep it- after all these years, it's probably grown attached to you.
 
Yeah, I am going to keep it. I actually will be needing a couple body pieces to make it complete and I want to paint it the blue/white color scheme. It was originally the black/orange but I had to change the tank so I painted it all one color a while back.

Any hits on the instructions for wiring the Lowes solenoid I got today?
 
Your new solenoid should have 2 posts or connectors for high current (they will be large). A 3rd will be smaller, that one is for the starter button output, which is the trigger or activator. Since it is a relay, it will work either way. Mount it the best way and hook up one high current connector to the starter, the other to the battery.
 
The one I have does have two posts and one smaller spade connector. The spade connector is grounded to the metal housing/bracket that it mounts with.

The positive cable from the battery gets mounted to one of the large posts and the other large cable gets mounted to the other post. It doesn't matter which post? They are not labled.

Now on the spade connector, I still have two more cables coming out of a two spade connector. One is blk/wht and the other is grn/yel. If I only need to mount one of those what do I do with the other one?
 
nooblet said:
The one I have does have two posts and one smaller spade connector. The spade connector is grounded to the metal housing/bracket that it mounts with.

The positive cable from the battery gets mounted to one of the large posts and the other large cable gets mounted to the other post. It doesn't matter which post? They are not labled.

Now on the spade connector, I still have two more cables coming out of a two spade connector. One is blk/wht and the other is grn/yel. If I only need to mount one of those what do I do with the other one?
Click to expand...
Correct, it does not matter. What I did was find the best way to mount it and then connected the post closest to the battery to the battery wire. The other, of course, connects to the starter motor.
The spade connector is the trigger wire. It is fed down into the relay which is why it looks like that. Connect the Y/G wire to it.
The B/W wire is your ground wire. Put a ring terminal on it and connect it to one of your mounting bolts.
Please note, even though it is for a 1983 model, the service manual on BassCliff's website has a wiring diagram in it, and the colours agree. BTW, if you have not done so, download it. Print out the wiring diagram and take it to a copy shop. Make a couple copies as large as possible. I believe I used 11"x17" paper. It makes the diagram much easier to read.
 
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OK. Thanks for clarifying that. I will do it tomorrow. I also charged the battery today so it should start now and I will test the AC voltage coming from the stator as well. From the tests I have done so far the R/R appears to be ok and if the stator checks out then I geuss I will have to start checking wiring. :(
 
Ok, so I charged my battery yesterday and when I took it off the charger it had 13.57vdc. Didn't install it, just left it on the shelf cause I had to go to work. When I checked it this morning it was down to 12.9vdc The battery is only a week old. Funny thing is, when I bought it they filled it and charged it for me. Took about 1 1/2 hours. When I charged it yesterday it was on the charger for 4 1/2 hours.

Installed the battery and she started right up. At 1000 rpm's I had 12.95vdc, at 2500 rpm's I had 14.5vdc and at 5000 rpm's I had 14.2vdc. From what I have been reading on here if the voltage is less at a higher rpm, there is a problem with the positive battery cable. The clamps were a little corroded and I cleaned them up last week, but who knows how far down the cable the corrosion goes, so I will replace it. The cable has a cloth outer casing, does it matter if I replace it with a rubber/plastic cased one?

Started to check the AC output from the stator. On the first leg at 2500 rpm's I had just over 35vac then it died. One of the carbs flooded because the plastic choke cable insert is broken (where it screws into the top of the carb). I have the new piece, just have not put it on yet. I had the cable temporarily tie-wrapped in place just so I could finish my charging system checks. Looks like I will have to pull the carbs and fix that first and while they are out might as well pull them apart and clean them again. Wanted to get at least one good ride in before the end of the season but I am running out of time. :cry:
 
That voltage falloff is normal after a charger is removed and battery sits for a while. Those dc output readings are a good sign- I'm not convinced that a slight dropoff in voltage from 2500 to 5000 rpms means much, but absolutely clean all the connections you can. I have a voltage display on at all times and have noticed a slight drop at higher rpm's, but I bet my 30 year old R/R is doing its best to adjust. Sort your carb problems out, and do the ac output test, but those dc readings look good.
 
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