It's either the wiring, the coils or the dyna ignition system.
you said you swapped the wiring around on the coils and you had spark on 2~3. either you don't have 2~3 wired in correctly, or you have two junk dyna's.
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you said you swapped the wiring around on the coils and you had spark on 2~3. either you don't have 2~3 wired in correctly, or you have two junk dyna's.
Steve
GS Whisperer
Your wiring diagram is faulty. :-k
The wire that leaves the stator and travels up through the wiring harness goes to the other end of the handlebars. When the bikes still had an operating headlight switch, one lead of the stator would be interrupted when the headlights were turned off. When the headlight switch was defeated, and later removed, that wire only went to a connector under the tank and looped back to the R/R.
No, the headlight did not run directly from that stator wire. There were two sets of contacts in the headlight switch. One set actually controlled the current to the light, the other set of contacts was for the stator wire.
.
N
Normk
Guest
You repeat "I welded the frame some time back and forgot to disconnect the battery so i fried the battery" but it is not clear what you mean by "blew". Did the battery explode due to a hydrogen-oxygen ignition?
Did the battery fail to provide starting current immediately after the welding?
Having a battery failure as the result of welding on the machine is almost unheard of....I can't advance a credible theory as to how this might happen excepting an ignition explosion. Keep in mind that I'm speaking from 50+ years involved in the mechanical repair trades so should have been made aware of something.
There is a difference in opinion amoung the top technicians regarding the best strategy for avoiding problems which might arise from arc welding on a vehicle. The largest sample group in this regard would be the heavy truck and equipment (construction, mining, logging, agricultural) repair industries who almost universally use purpose designed devices which are jumpered across the battery. Not again that this practice is solely intended to protect electronics with no regard to battery issues because these were unreported over decades prior to the advent of on-board electronics.
In fact, I have been an early advocate of the theory that disconnecting the battery and leaving cables disconnected may contribute rather than mitigate risks because the battery will provide a shunt to high voltage which might be induced or applied during welding. It is my belief that disconnecting the battery and connecting the positive & negative cables would be preferable but likely not greatly superior to simply leaving the battery connected.
In short, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, it is my view that the welding is an unrelated incident and that you will be best to return to the basics to diagnose a basic ignition problem affecting one coil.
Since your system is reported to be breaker point, this you need to confirm as retro-fitting of these old systems to aftermarket electronics with or without breaker point involvement is common, you have a relatively simple system to diagnose.
The power supply (switched positive) from the ignition switch is common to the coils so check connectors but power to one should be power to both. Did you check at the coils?
The other end of the coil primary (the 12 volt side) goes to ground through the breaker points. Swapping the coils (reversing the breaker point wires to the opposite coil and breaker, will either see the spark from the same coil or from the same breaker points. This will direct you to the problem area. After that it will be a matter of further inspection to see if the coil can be salvaged or whether the issue is in the wiring, breaker point or condenser.
The VRR is not directly involved in the ignition circuit so this will not be the issue regarding spark from one coil only. Likewise, the stator has no involvement unless you are concerned with the trigger coil for an electronic ignition system which has the trigger coil constructed as part of the alternator stator.
Any chance you have mixed some wires? My own 1970 GS850, for example was not running when acquired because the PO had interchanged the fuel sender and ignition wires. It can and does happen.
Often the most effective solution is to have your brother-in-law stop over and check the wiring colors. Since he will plague you for ever over a simple oversight, he is bound to spot any error almost instantly.
Green wires are ground when considering Honda and this extends to some other Japanese lines as well as for many Chinese machines. Other Japanese lines use black for ground so one needs to keep this in mind when adapting parts.
Did the battery fail to provide starting current immediately after the welding?
Having a battery failure as the result of welding on the machine is almost unheard of....I can't advance a credible theory as to how this might happen excepting an ignition explosion. Keep in mind that I'm speaking from 50+ years involved in the mechanical repair trades so should have been made aware of something.
There is a difference in opinion amoung the top technicians regarding the best strategy for avoiding problems which might arise from arc welding on a vehicle. The largest sample group in this regard would be the heavy truck and equipment (construction, mining, logging, agricultural) repair industries who almost universally use purpose designed devices which are jumpered across the battery. Not again that this practice is solely intended to protect electronics with no regard to battery issues because these were unreported over decades prior to the advent of on-board electronics.
In fact, I have been an early advocate of the theory that disconnecting the battery and leaving cables disconnected may contribute rather than mitigate risks because the battery will provide a shunt to high voltage which might be induced or applied during welding. It is my belief that disconnecting the battery and connecting the positive & negative cables would be preferable but likely not greatly superior to simply leaving the battery connected.
In short, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, it is my view that the welding is an unrelated incident and that you will be best to return to the basics to diagnose a basic ignition problem affecting one coil.
Since your system is reported to be breaker point, this you need to confirm as retro-fitting of these old systems to aftermarket electronics with or without breaker point involvement is common, you have a relatively simple system to diagnose.
The power supply (switched positive) from the ignition switch is common to the coils so check connectors but power to one should be power to both. Did you check at the coils?
The other end of the coil primary (the 12 volt side) goes to ground through the breaker points. Swapping the coils (reversing the breaker point wires to the opposite coil and breaker, will either see the spark from the same coil or from the same breaker points. This will direct you to the problem area. After that it will be a matter of further inspection to see if the coil can be salvaged or whether the issue is in the wiring, breaker point or condenser.
The VRR is not directly involved in the ignition circuit so this will not be the issue regarding spark from one coil only. Likewise, the stator has no involvement unless you are concerned with the trigger coil for an electronic ignition system which has the trigger coil constructed as part of the alternator stator.
Any chance you have mixed some wires? My own 1970 GS850, for example was not running when acquired because the PO had interchanged the fuel sender and ignition wires. It can and does happen.
Often the most effective solution is to have your brother-in-law stop over and check the wiring colors. Since he will plague you for ever over a simple oversight, he is bound to spot any error almost instantly.
Green wires are ground when considering Honda and this extends to some other Japanese lines as well as for many Chinese machines. Other Japanese lines use black for ground so one needs to keep this in mind when adapting parts.
Norm, he has a dyna systems ignition installed; no points on this bike any more. He also has proved out that both coils are operative.
T
taylorgaz
Guest
81gs1000g
What i mean when i said i blew the battery is after the welding incident the battery wouldnt charge fully after that, it only gets to 3/4 charging. I just thought welding would have damaged it. As for the dyna ignition system i done a light test on it. The results were- light came on when #1+4 were on the mark when connected to the white from the dyna and when i connected to the black wire from the dyna the light came on on the #2+3 mark so im thinking the dyna is ok. I still cant get spark from #2+3 and i have 12volts at both coils.Would that light test confirm the dyna is ok or could it still be faulty? . I swapped coils around and wires numerous times and the results are always the same ,no spark on #2+3( black wire from dyna).
I double checked wiring and all seems ok, I have a couple of spare coils that i tried aswell and no joy.
Cheers
What i mean when i said i blew the battery is after the welding incident the battery wouldnt charge fully after that, it only gets to 3/4 charging. I just thought welding would have damaged it. As for the dyna ignition system i done a light test on it. The results were- light came on when #1+4 were on the mark when connected to the white from the dyna and when i connected to the black wire from the dyna the light came on on the #2+3 mark so im thinking the dyna is ok. I still cant get spark from #2+3 and i have 12volts at both coils.Would that light test confirm the dyna is ok or could it still be faulty? . I swapped coils around and wires numerous times and the results are always the same ,no spark on #2+3( black wire from dyna).
I double checked wiring and all seems ok, I have a couple of spare coils that i tried aswell and no joy.
Cheers
Over here, we blow batteries by jump starting with reverse polarity- no fun! I don't think the welding did anything to your battery, it's just that you have charging issues.
A test light doesn't require much current, whereas the ignition coil maybe needs a pulse of about 4 amps pushing thru dyna. If both coils work and you've doublechecked wiring from dyna to both coils. I'd suspect a damaged dyna- but how come you have two defective ones?
T
taylorgaz
Guest
81gs1000g
Just started the bike and running on all cylinders. Turned out the two dynas i had were faulty. The right module (#2+3) on both were not working so i took a left module(#1+4) off one and rewired it into the current dyna and got spark on both coils.
Job done and not soon enough,
thanks to everyone who gave me advice, much appreciated.
Cheers
Just started the bike and running on all cylinders. Turned out the two dynas i had were faulty. The right module (#2+3) on both were not working so i took a left module(#1+4) off one and rewired it into the current dyna and got spark on both coils.
Job done and not soon enough,
thanks to everyone who gave me advice, much appreciated.
Cheers
N
Normk
Guest
Sorry about the breaker point reference, I missed that in the previous posts. Thanks, Rusty.
I see you're from Ireland, Taylor. Maybe you should blame the English as do my Welsh relatives.
We don't hear complaints about Lewis, or O'Connell electrical systems but Lucas has a reputation.
People are posting on issues without including the most important component of any project, prior assignment of blame. This can be a serious omission in large organizations.
I see you're from Ireland, Taylor. Maybe you should blame the English as do my Welsh relatives.
We don't hear complaints about Lewis, or O'Connell electrical systems but Lucas has a reputation.
People are posting on issues without including the most important component of any project, prior assignment of blame. This can be a serious omission in large organizations.
That sounded like the only logical conclusion.
Very ingenius, but how come you have two dynas with module for #2 and#3 damaged- did you have trouble with ignition coils in past?
T
taylorgaz
Guest
81gs1000g
I recently bought a gs850g engine with the intenson of building a cafe and when i tried swaping the dyna it was giving me the same problem. I had a problem with the coil 2+3 after welding the frame so i just had it in my head that i must of damaged it or the dyna. But now im thinking, Is it just coincidence that two dynas had the same problem? i dont know but the bike is going now
I recently bought a gs850g engine with the intenson of building a cafe and when i tried swaping the dyna it was giving me the same problem. I had a problem with the coil 2+3 after welding the frame so i just had it in my head that i must of damaged it or the dyna. But now im thinking, Is it just coincidence that two dynas had the same problem? i dont know but the bike is going now