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Electrical problems, arrrgh!

  • Thread starter Thread starter pasteurized
  • Start date Start date
Will do tomorrow, Earl. I do have a fresh set of points, but being that the ones on the bike are only about 8 months/500 miles old I had a hard time believing that they are problematic. I will be sure to check resistance between plug wires tomorrow. Checked the coil resistances tonight, and confirmed a constant 4-5 ohms on each coil. Guess all that's left to check is resistance between plug wires.

One other fun story from tonight: While removing the wire from one of the spark plugs, the contact from the inside of the plug wire completely fell out and apart. Got to take it apart and put it back together, but I guess this shows the status of the coils/plug wires as far as being pretty old.

As always, thanks again Earl. I think I will end up just biting the bullet and ordering those things, but I will check those couple of things tomorrow before ordering both.

-Brad
 
But...how did the horn play a role in all of this?

But...how did the horn play a role in all of this?

Hello all. I've been following this thread since yesterday (I would have contributed, but this problem seems to be currently beyond my expertise). I was interested b/c I've been considering upgrading the horn on my bike. I just read an article in the latest MCN that echoed the sentiements seen earlier in this thread that horn upgrades should pretty much always include a relay as well as a diode to ensure that current doesn't flow "back" into more vulnerable components. So I understand that the horn could have caused a problem with fuses, swithces, etc. Your troubleshooting seems to have you down to bad points or bad coils.

What I don't get is how the horn would have caused the issue? It's already been stated that points generally deteriorate slowly and I thought that coils generally would not be considered a "more vulnerable component". So what gives? #-o

If y'all get sec to explain this to me, cool, but don't let it hold up getting pasteurized the bike back up and running. Best of luck!
 
Last edited:
Well, I went ahead and bit the bullet and ordered green dyna coils, dyna wires, and a dyna s ignition. If you can't troubleshoot the system, just replace the whole damned thing ;-)

Ordered through z1 Enterprises, my first order with them. I have heard good things, but hopefully the order doesn't come TOO soon; I have finals next week and I am going to be really tempted to slap the new gear on the bike when I should be studying! Installing these seems like it should be pretty easy. The coils will just swap out and the ignition will take a little time but I can't expect the whole procedure to take more than a couple hours. Here I am justifying installing the stuff before I even have it ;-)

I will definitely give an update as to how it runs with the new Dyna stuff on it. I hope the higher powered coils and ignition don't in turn smoke my stator, which is stock as far as I know.
 
I dont believe the horn caused the ignition system problems. I believe the battery was probably marginal and when the horn was used, it used enough battery amperage to lower the charge level of the battery such that there was insufficient amperage in the battery to power the starter and ignition/electrical system. Hence, no fire at the plugs. The plug caps falling apart internally at this exact time, was coincidental. Igniton and charging circuits are different/segregated circuits. The ignition problem may be correctable by snipping the ends of the plug wires, checking continuity/resistances and installing new plug caps if need be.

The battery should be closely monitored and replaced if it does not hold a normal charge level.

E.

MelodicMetalGod said:
So I understand that the horn could have caused a problem with fuses, swithces, etc. Your troubleshooting seems to have you down to bad points or bad coils.

What I don't get is how the horn would have caused the issue? It's already been stated that points generally deteriorate slowly and I thought that coils generally would not be considered a "more vulnerable component". So what gives? #-o

If y'all get sec to explain this to me, cool, but don't let it hold up getting pasteurized the bike back up and running. Best of luck!
Click to expand...
 
Congratulations! Whenever I am refurbishing a bike, I have found it always pays off in the long run to just bite the bullet and fix it well. Its a bite in the wallet, but once you have the new coils, wires and ignition system, you can pretty much forget about having to mess with it again.

The higher powered Dyna coils and new ignition system will have no negative effect on the charging system. Not to worry. :-)

The Dyna is pretty simple to install..........BUT! It appears sooooo simple that many people do not bother to read the installation directions. Then they end up here....................... LOL The Dyna "S" instructions are excellent and precise. Take the time to read EVERY word. :-) ..............and save youself a lot of frustration. eheheh

E.




pasteurized said:
Well, I went ahead and bit the bullet and ordered green dyna coils, dyna wires, and a dyna s ignition. If you can't troubleshoot the system, just replace the whole damned thing

Ordered through z1 Enterprises, my first order with them. I have heard good things, but hopefully the order doesn't come TOO soon; I have finals next week and I am going to be really tempted to slap the new gear on the bike when I should be studying! Installing these seems like it should be pretty easy. The coils will just swap out and the ignition will take a little time but I can't expect the whole procedure to take more than a couple hours. Here I am justifying installing the stuff before I even have it ;-)

I will definitely give an update as to how it runs with the new Dyna stuff on it. I hope the higher powered coils and ignition don't in turn smoke my stator, which is stock as far as I know.
Click to expand...
 
earlfor, Thanks for the explanation of the diagnosis. Makes sense.

pasteurized, Looking forward to hearing how your new electrical components work out. Good luck!
 
Thanks! Got the parts installed today, but now it's time to replace the battery. I will take care of that tomorrow evening and see how she runs! I'll be sure to report tomorrow night.


MelodicMetalGod said:
earlfor, Thanks for the explanation of the diagnosis. Makes sense.

pasteurized, Looking forward to hearing how your new electrical components work out. Good luck!
Click to expand...
 
So in looking back over some old posts, I realized that I never got around to replying. Not sure if I posted it earlier, but I also went out and got a new maintenance free Interstate battery before doing the swap of all the ignition stuff. After installing everything, I got spark (a LOT!) like I should, and it ran fine after that point. The bike still needs to have the carbs tuned, which will be done within the next couple of weeks. The coils and electric ignition were simple to install, and for the amount of spark and apparent efficiency I highly recommend the swap to anyone considering it.
 
Here is one that might be worth checking. This has happened to me three times.

The right hand control (throttle) which also possesses the wiring for the kill switch and front brake light was exposed to the handlebars (just underneath the kill switch). Over time the insulation rubbed off of one of the wires and shorted out with the handlebars. It might be worth taking off the throttle control and checking your wiring. The wires are often sorta crowded and twisted.

Just a thought.
 
pasteurized said:
Ok, here is today's update:

Bypassed the ignition/kill switches by running a lead directly from the battery to the orange wire on each coil. Additionally, I ran leads from each point to its respective coil, essentially bypassing the wires that run from the points to the coils that snakes around the frame. No consistent spark. There were two separate times that I got spark from one of the plugs (#4), but it was not very consistent and once I let off the starter button, it would not fire again. I tried all the different plugs and was not able to get any spark out of any of them. This was in the garage with all the lights off, so it was pitch black. I was able to see some spark from the points but it was weak spark and it didn't seem very consistent. Tested the condensers via the resistance method and they both checked out just fine. The battery was pretty worn out from all the starter spinning after a bit, so we temporarily added jumper cables from a car battery (not a running car) to the bike's battery and even though the starter would spin quickly again, no go on the spark.

I guess at this point I would have to say both coils are shot. I don't know how both would die simultaneously.
Click to expand...

I saw that you got everything resolved further down, but one thing jumped out at me when I read the stuff in your original post.

When you got the bike running with the main fuse blown, it was running on the stator/regulator without the battery.
The battery does a bunch of things on the bike, and one of them is stabilizing the voltage. So it is probable that while you were running without the battery, the bikes voltage was swinging widely up and down ... way over 12 volts at times.

My guess is that this could have blown the ignition module (assuming your bike is like mine and has a transistorised ignition).
That would explain why both coils (and a new coil) would not spark.

My OEM manual for a 650 has a fairly simple test for ignition modules. If you are curious enough to want to check your old ignition just to see, I'll dig it up and post it.


pasteurized said:
One more thing to throw into the mix is that I have an extra coil that we swapped in place of one of my bike's and it failed to show any spark as well. I don't know the status of this coil though, as it was a used piece that I have had in a box for a few years.

I wish there was something that would just shout out to me "order dyna coils!" and I would go ahead and do so. Normally I would have just bought Dyna Coils and a Dyna S ignition and done this right, but with my wedding a month from tomorrow, I want to be pretty dang sure that what I buy will fix it.
Click to expand...
 
Hey Pasture:

Is your machine now running good since you bought the Dyna gear? I somehow got mixed up in the middle/end of the thread.

I hope your motorin'. The weather today is excellent (Southeast KY mountains just across the VA state line).

I think it is supposed to drop back into the 30's tonight.

Did you already get married?
 
Thanks for the posts guys!

dtkid- Just had the right hand controls apart due to replacing throttle cables and I noticed how cramped and twisted the wires are. At some point I think I will probably replace the wiring in there and route it a bit better. Good call to have a look at though.

I did have the bike out on Saturday, but it is snowing like crazy right now and we are slated to get around 6 inches by tomorrow morning. Probably won't be out anytime soon with it again. I have a bunch of new parts that arrived via FedEx today (stainless brake lines, etc) that I get to put on this weekend. Should be fun! And yea, got married in May of last year. Haven't been too active on the board since then but definitely still enjoying the GS!


bakalorz - Your post is VERY interesting. I'll bet you hit it right on the nose. The symptoms didn't make a lot of sense, and after testing all the wiring (and it passing with flying colors) I just went ahead and bit the bullet to upgrade to the dyna stuff + new battery, which I was already considering doing anyway. I'll bet you nailed it though. Thanks for your insight!!
 
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