Engine oil. Why the wildly opposing opinions?

[TheCafeKid]

Shin that is a very interesting read. I honestly never thought about there being that big of a difference in what's available here vs elsewhere for oil considering the US's rather stringent emissions standards in most cases.

Learn something every day.... Thanks for posting that!

 

[Shin-Ken 1074]

Thanks TCK, glad it was of interest. We're all here to help keep our GS's going and this may help some understand the problems when assuming a product is the same everywhere when at times they are not, cheers.

 

[Guest]

I wonder if the preoccupation with zinc levels isn't a little bit overblown, given that zinc (more appropriately, ZDDP) seems intended primarily as the last line of defense, before metal to metal contact ensues (think oil pump failure etc.). Lower levels in modern oil formulas caused some concern to owners of older classic cars with push-rod/tappet engines, where boundary lubrication is crucial to extending the life of those components. Now, phosphorous is more of an active anti-wear additive, and higher levels would have obvious benefits, but there doesn't seem to be much debate, or oil comparisons made, based solely on levels of phosphorous in different brands.
I write this mainly to clarify & possibly learn something...not simply to argue. So input from those more learned, would be welcome.

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

That glazing the bore thing is nuts.
I recall a cranky old guy in Sarasota FLA back in 83.

He asked us to pick up some oil for him and he specifically said it was to be Havoline of nothing.

His reason was that he had always used it in his car.
This stellar chemist\engineer\crazy old man then proceeded to tell us that if you change a brand of oil then the original oil has to burn off before the new oil can take its place.
This leads to horrible engine wear due to the time in between when there is no lubrication at all.

It was mind-numbing to look this man in the face, listen to his lunacy, and not punch him and run away.

go to bobistheoil guy.

I always use synthetic in my vehicles mostly to allow longer change intervals and to promote cold weather starting.

I no longer use synthetic in bikes. Diesel oil is mighty good stuff for bikes and cheap and easily obtained.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable about oil can answer this as to whether it's myth or true, or at least plausible. (that's right you get to be Jamie or Adam)

I read, and it may have been here, that changing your oil TOO OFTEN can cause premature wear. I seem to remember the theory being something to the effect that oil or contents of oil, bond with the parts they are to protect, and that changing the oil to frequently prevents this bond from happening.
Obviously changing it too often would be a monumental waste of money, but is this pure hokum or is there at least an element of truth to this?

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

How would draining the oil in any way lead to a loss of the minimal oil that is retained in cylinder walls?

I know Iron is semi porous and holds oil.
Regardless if I empty my cast iron skillet to put in fresh oil to make home fries the pain does not cease to be oily.

But then that is too logical............
Its that crazy old guy in Sarasota again.
Sent us for oil and to get a sandwich at Starvin Marvin's??

 

[tkent02]

Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable about oil can answer this as to whether it's myth or true, or at least plausible. (that's right you get to be Jamie or Adam)

I read, and it may have been here, that changing your oil TOO OFTEN can cause premature wear. I seem to remember the theory being something to the effect that oil or contents of oil, bond with the parts they are to protect, and that changing the oil to frequently prevents this bond from happening.
Obviously changing it too often would be a monumental waste of money, but is this pure hokum or is there at least an element of truth to this?

I'm going to guess it's pure BS, but even if it were true it would not effect me or my bikes. What we should have is a "Silly Oil Myth" thread, with these and all of the others on it.

Edit, the Silly Oil Myth thread has been started.

 

[1_v8_merc]

Just go to your local truck stop.

I've run extremely crappy diesel in my GS, like maybe $1.50/qt or less.

But I like wal-mart's brand of Diesel, called Farm&Fleet 15w40.
Sometimes I will switch to Rotella brand.

I switch Oil Brands all the time.....she still runs strong.

 

[JimmyR]

Ok cool - I feel wiser now! Thanks for all the input and I think you are right about my mechanic. He's a lovely bloke but I do get sceptical when people get so preachy about things when other guys don't. I like to think that I have a pretty good BS detector and that's why I posted the question in the first place. You fellas have confirmed what my inner BSD detected.

 

[Guest]

Message #3 in this thread tells most of what a person in North America needs to know about oils for GSes.

Q Why are there so many arguments about oil?
A Because it's about chemistry and engineering and things that can't be seen, so it's hard to recongnize BS.

FWIW, after spending an hour or two on bobistheoilguy, I won't be going back.

 

[chuck hahn]

Plain ole Valvoline 10W40 in mine..never had an oil related problem so far.

 

[bbjumper]

All you need to know about oil

All you need to know about oil

Best information I have found concerning oil and the GS..

Cheers

http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf

 

[7981GS]

Excellent write up with clear information!
Thanks for sharing that link!

From that study:

Base oil:
There are several different base oils available to formulate motor oils. The base oils used in the 1960?s are what we call today API Group I, although some fall in the high aromatic sub- classification and some in the low aromatic sub-classification (This difference is important when we discuss additives). Today Group I oils (considered mineral oils, or ?dino? oils) continue to be marketed, but in the US it is more common to find API Group II (still considered to be mineral oils), some API Group II+, more API Group III (considered ?synthetic? after Mobil lost an argument against Castrol), and mixtures of API Group IV and V (traditional synthetics). The original synthetics were pure Group IV base stocks, and due to lack of solvency did not mix well with the residuals of Group I and Group II oils and shrunk oil seals, creating the concept (Myth) that you cannot change to synthetics after using mineral oils.
? Group I oils are solvent refined and normally low in natural viscosity index, although some oil fields produce better grades than others. They have 20 to 30% aromatics, high nitrogen and sulfur.
? Group II oils are hydroprocessed oils (or solvent refined and then hydrotreated). Normally 92% to 99% of the molecules are saturated in the bombardment of hydrogen, creating a clean, stable base oil and eliminating almost all aromatics, sulfur, and nitrogen.
? Group II+ oils are hydroprocessed to a quality somewhere between Group II and Group III.
? Group III oils are severely hydroprocessed, creating base oils that under some conditions give equal performance to traditional synthetic oils.
? Group IV oils are PAO (Polyalphaolefin) synthetics. These are excellent lubricants but have very low solvency when used by themselves, not mixing well with other oils, additives or contaminants, and causing hardening of seals and gaskets. Fully formulated PAO based oils use esters or other ingredients to increase their solvency.
? Group V oils are everything else synthetic. In general the esters and diesters of various formulations are used to mix in small percentages with PAO oils to give then the necessary solvency and help them maintain a clean engine, softening the seals to avoid leakage. The category also includes other types of oils used for specialty products or to thicken group I, II, III or IV oils.

Evaporation:
All oils are tested for evaporation for 1 hour in an oven at 250? C in a test called NOAK. An SJ oil is allowed to have 20% evaporation. An SL oil is allowed only 15%, and an CI-4 oil is only allowed 13%. Many synthetic oils are around 5% to 8%. The higher the number, the thicker the oil gets in service and the more you will have to add.

Friction Modifiers:
Every oil is designed for a specific purpose. In general, motor oils are designed to be as slick as possible and to reduce friction as much as possible. These are generally esters (group V synthetic) and fatty acids whose molecules also attach to the metallic surfaces to reduce friction during sliding action. If the contact is heavy they are pulled off, allowing friction and wear unless there are enough anti-wear additives to take over.


Daniel

 

[850 Combat]

Even synthetics have to come from oil wells or gas wells. The term "Dyno" makes no sense as either or description. I believe that polyalphaolefin oils use ethylene gas a feed stock, which I believe comes from refining of oil. That would be the same oil some people like to call "Dyno".

Synthetic vs. Distilled would be a more apt description than "Dyno"

I have not been able to determine what precisely is the feed stock for synthetic oil yet. You will notice that that information is missing in the oil type descriptions posted.

 

[bbjumper]

After looking at everything I have come across regarding both it seems the only difference is that Synthetics with similar additive levels don't breakdown and maintain viscosity and lubricating ability over a longer period.

 

[bbjumper]

Another good read..

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

 

[Guest]

I really like the color purple...