Ethanol and fuel injection

[Rob S.]

I'm going to guess that even if it might be a minuscule fraction of the damage ethanol causes to carbs, it's still not the fuel of choice for injected vehicles. Assuming the injected bike sits for a year without running, the battery is on a tender and a little jar of treatment was added (I have two types - "Ethanol Shield Fuel Stabilizer" and "Lucas Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers"), I'm guessing the bike will start fairly quickly, but that corn was still doing it's nefarious duty, right?

At the top of the Lucas jar, it says, "Flex Fuel E-10, E-15, E-85." E-85?!? I had no idea there was such a thing. Must be what the shark in "Jaws" ran on.

I know next to nothing about carbs or injection, so I'm just asking.

 

[Steve]

I have absolutely no doubt that ethanol in the gasoline is causing some damage, the question is ... how much? :-k

We do not have ethanol-free gas in oHIo. I'm sure there are a few stations around that sell E-85, but I don't have any vehicles that can use it, so I have never bothered to notice.

Yes, there is E-85. You have to have a vehicle that is specifically made to use it. Depending on the manufacturer, it might be called "Flex-Fuel" or something similar. The engine computer senses what fuel is coming to the engine and adjusts the computer to provide the correct amount of fuel.

I am also amused by all the hoopla about parking a vehicle (or lawn mower, chain saw, whatever) for a while with ethanol-laced fuel. I have used Sta-Bil and/or SeaFoam, but prefer Sta-Bil. Still have not tried the new formula that everyone talks about, mainly because I have had no problems with the 'regular' stuff. If I am going to store an engine, I will run the fuel tank low, then add enough Sta-Bil to treat the entire contents of the tank ... with a double dose. Since the tank is low, that much Sta-Bil is a REALLY strong concentration. I will then ride to the gas station (1/2 mile away), fill the tank to bring it down to a double-dose, then go for a ride "around the block". Depending on the weather, that "block" might be anywhere from 1 to 30 miles. I will then change the oil and filter, then park the bike.

One of the reasons that there are problems is because the ethanold evaporates. Gasoline does, too, but ethanol does it quicker. The fuel systems in our bikes allow venting to atmosphere, so it can be a problem. Fuel-injected vehicles have a completely sealed fuel system, so evaporation is not as much of a problem.

I tend to keep a few 5-gallon cans of gasoline around, for handy access for lawn mower, weed whacker, snow blower, topping off a GS tank, etc. Depending on the season, I might not use the contents for well over a month. I don't put Sta-Bil in the cans, either. I have no idea what I am doing wrong, but I have never had a problem.

 

[GregT]

E85 is race fuel. The close equivalent to running straight Methanol. We don't do the long winter layups here that you guys in the US have to so I don't have experience of long term storage. But in my experience, pretty well every injected bike has come on the market since ethanol fuel was introduced.
You would therefore expect them to have systems designed for that fuel. I'd doubt if there would be any damage from storage.

Ethanol is like methanol in that it's hygroscopic - absorbs water. Your stabilisers will be designed to prevent that water from doing damage.
The area that the stabilisers don't reach is the bores. After your last ride it might be a good idea to squirt some WD40 in the plug holes...
I know that Vance and Hines used to squirt it down the carb throats after a run to neutralise the acids left on the bores.

 

[Sandy]

I have absolutely no doubt that ethanol in the gasoline is causing some damage, the question is ... how much? :-k

We do not have ethanol-free gas in oHIo. I'm sure there are a few stations around that sell E-85, but I don't have any vehicles that can use it, so I have never bothered to notice.

Yes, there is E-85. You have to have a vehicle that is specifically made to use it. Depending on the manufacturer, it might be called "Flex-Fuel" or something similar. The engine computer senses what fuel is coming to the engine and adjusts the computer to provide the correct amount of fuel.

I am also amused by all the hoopla about parking a vehicle (or lawn mower, chain saw, whatever) for a while with ethanol-laced fuel. I have used Sta-Bil and/or SeaFoam, but prefer Sta-Bil. Still have not tried the new formula that everyone talks about, mainly because I have had no problems with the 'regular' stuff. If I am going to store an engine, I will run the fuel tank low, then add enough Sta-Bil to treat the entire contents of the tank ... with a double dose. Since the tank is low, that much Sta-Bil is a REALLY strong concentration. I will then ride to the gas station (1/2 mile away), fill the tank to bring it down to a double-dose, then go for a ride "around the block". Depending on the weather, that "block" might be anywhere from 1 to 30 miles. I will then change the oil and filter, then park the bike.

One of the reasons that there are problems is because the ethanold evaporates. Gasoline does, too, but ethanol does it quicker. The fuel systems in our bikes allow venting to atmosphere, so it can be a problem. Fuel-injected vehicles have a completely sealed fuel system, so evaporation is not as much of a problem.

I tend to keep a few 5-gallon cans of gasoline around, for handy access for lawn mower, weed whacker, snow blower, topping off a GS tank, etc. Depending on the season, I might not use the contents for well over a month. I don't put Sta-Bil in the cans, either. I have no idea what I am doing wrong, but I have never had a problem.

Pretty much do the same and never had a problem with anything. Motorcycle, lawn tractor, mowers, chain saws, trimmers, etc. Only thing I do different is add Stabil to the 5 gal. can when I fill it because some equipment might not be used for quite some time. Oh yeah. Last time the carbs on the GS were throughly cleaned has to be 10 years ago and it sits over winter for at least 5 months.

 

[Brendan W]

I've never had trouble with mowers, strimmer/weedeaters, chainsaws, outboards, cars or bikes.
Admittedly the bike and car is used all year. The others lay up for five months and I neither drain nor stabilise.
Maybe our ethanol is different.
The only trouble I had was with a Coleman gasoline camping stove. In the second season the pump seals disintegrated.
Replaced them with locally sourced and been good since.

 

[Dogma]

Back when I had a gas mower, I never remembered to put Stabil in it in the fall. Every spring I had to drain the carb and fuel line before it would start. That was the lowest point of the system, where the water collected. There was one year that I remembered to put stabilizer in, and it started easily in the spring.

I suspect Steve's 5 gallon cans have quite a bit of water safely sequestered in the bottom where it can't make trouble. I wonder if I can talk him into burning the gasoline out of one of those cans to see if there's water left over after. :twistedevil:

 

[Steve]

I suspect Steve's 5 gallon cans have quite a bit of water safely sequestered in the bottom where it can't make trouble. I wonder if I can talk him into burning the gasoline out of one of those cans to see if there's water left over after. :twistedevil:

You are welcome to come up and watch. :encouragement:

You can help, if you wish. The mower uses about half a gallon a week. The weed whacker and chainsaw use a 2-stroke mix, so that's a different can. I also top off the GS tanks, so some gas goes there, too. I have not noticed any problems, so that water must be firmly trapped.

Haven't tried using a filter, might invest in one some time.

.

 

[Guest]

How is your humidity in oHIo? That's where the problem lies. In Fl it's practically 100% year round and will leave a puddle of water in everything that sits more than three weeks. It's a major problem down here. I drain sport bike tanks quite often at the shop, because even though most of the fuel injected bikes will run with a little water in there, but when it puddles from sitting for weeks at a time, nothing I know of likes to run on water. I pour a gallon of fresh gas into a bowl and watch it cloud up in just a couple of minutes.

BTW, my 2003 Yukon XL will run on E85.

 

[Guest]

Just as a word of caution; you can add too much Stabil as well. About 20 years ago, my riding buddy put it in willy nilly when he winterized his VFR in the fall. I think he had the impression that if a little is good, a lot must be great. I don't know how much he had to put in it for it to happen, but I had to clean his carbs out in the spring because they were gummed up. Still don't get how that happened but I use the stuff often and I pay close attention to the ratio. As far as ethanol and water in the gas, living in Michigan we get our share of humidity as well and I like to use a product called Star-Tron. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it because it's pretty popular on other boards. I try to throw a bottle in once or twice a year in my four wheeled vehicles. I have multiple vehicles that I drive, but only insure one at a time depending on time of year and what my needs are. So they can sit for months. I try to be aware of how long they sat and treat the gas and when it goes back into service I run whatever was in the tank through before putting new gas in. If there's anything in the gas I'd rather get it out quickly than just diluting it with every consecutive tank.

I think a person can get carried away thinking about all this stuff and maybe it doesn't matter as much to some people as others. However, I'm not the type of person who gets new vehicle every other year. I have a twenty year old jeep, 12 year old pickup, twenty year old sport bike, 36 year old GS, and a 41 year old dirt bike. I'll do anything I can to avoid deterioration whereas some people will never see the effects of ethanol eating away at their fuel system.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Ethanol free gas stations in Ohio & other states: https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OH
Seems like a large percentage of ethanol free gas stations around here are at marinas.


Live next door to Ohio. For the lawn mower & snow blower, I add Stabil to the gas can when filling it up. You know exactly how much you bought, so its easy to add the correct amount. Doing this was recommended when I purchased the lawn mower.

There are none in the southern Dayton area which includes where Steve and I both live (Centerville and Miamisburg). Huber Heights does have two stations but they are too far away from us to do any good.

 

[Steve]

There are none in the southern Dayton area which includes where Steve and I both live (Centerville and Miamisburg). Huber Heights does have two stations but they are too far away from us to do any good.

I have not looked at the map for quite some time, did not even know there was anything in Huber.

I just checked, there are a couple of stations in Kettering. One of them is a brand-new station, have driven past it, but never stopped.

.

 

[cowboyup3371]

I have not looked at the map for quite some time, did not even know there was anything in Huber.

I just checked, there are a couple of stations in Kettering. One of them is a brand-new station, have driven past it, but never stopped.

.

I overlooked that one in Kettering when I pulled it up yesterday; thanks