I agree the side plate and the heat sink is r/r(-), butThose don't do anything to connect the side plate to battery/frame/harness
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Ever seen this for a reg/rec
- Thread starter trevor
- Start date
Other than the stock blk/wht wire from wiring harness that may be under there on the solenoid mounting bolt. ... and we know how marginal that can be.
>> later note:
Oh, I now see that is what you said in post #18.
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You will correct me if I am wrong, but if you "ground" one leg of a stator, you are grounding them all.
Steve
GS Whisperer
Depending on whether the stator is wound in a "Delta" or a "Wye" configuration, grounding one of the three legs will disable either one or two legs, but not all three.
In the Delta wiring, you will be grounding one side of each of two windings, leaving just one winding unaffected.
In the Wye wiring, you will only be grounding one leg, leaving two sets of windings unaffected.
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I suppose what I am saying is that grounding in this manner "replicates" a ground fault in a stator and has the same effect.
8
81GS850
Guest
So how did the PO get this to live for 14 years if the system is that bad? I guess it did alright.
Yes, I love stuff like that. Ain't broke-don't fix! It's covered by sidecover so Trevor's Collector plates aren't an issue. Nowadays maybe to buy all those bits would cost as much as an R/R . In a neglected situation I 'd be a little worried by corrosion per dissimilar metals with all the aluminum hanging out but it's been taken care of.
It failed at least once, perhaps more times. Who knows how much it was even ridden in the last 14 years and nobody has looked at the stator. Any more variables needed?
If you want to understand what "grounding a stator" leg is and is not go read the manual (GS1100E for example). It describes the current flows when "shorting legs" of the stator.
mvalenti
Forum Mentor
8
81GS850
Guest
Where did you see this particular setup failed once? I'll agree the charging system failed, then the PO decided to put this system on it. Original post said the charging system was spot on. Also we have a member saying the unit has been on there for 14 years. IF it took out a stator in it's current configuration, then it would be safe to assume a PO would have replaced this homebrew solution as well. I'll agree that we don't know how many miles were put on in 14 years. But if the bike is in riding condition it was probably ridden consistent enough in the last 14 years to test this design. Also the OE design of the wiring with a headlight on/off switch dropped out a leg correct? So I think it's safe to assume there's not enough over voltage from 2 legs only to fry the battery. Also looking at the OE wiring diagram of a GS850G, there's only one leg being regulated anyways.
I'm not saying anyone go out and replicate this design, but it goes to show there's more than one way to skin a cat and if it's not broke don't fix it. It provides an interesting talking point at least.
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all the manuals I have are simplistic. They consider testing stator-out-of -circuit -a standard test-and/or plugged in to rectifier where each leg has it's own "ground" and + out through it's own rectifiers . They can act together then, I suppose......and these are "the paths of least resistance"...
Simply, it looks like one third of current is removed from charging with Trevor's setup via grounding one leg's "+" through scr .But other legs now seem to have an alternate path to ground for their "+" as well.... granted it's through the extra resistance/inductance of the "grounded leg,which I am not grasping all that well, but I wonder if their + output "chooses" their connection to the + of the bridge rectifier and/or the "grounded path". The simple query : wouldn't output of the other legs be affected?
The GS1100E FACTORY manual is available for free download at Basscliff's website. I know I have posted the relevant page as well. It describes all the current paths when conducting unregulated and regulated modes.
Where did you see this particular setup failed once? I'll agree the charging system failed, then the PO decided to put this system on it. Original post said the charging system was spot on. Also we have a member saying the unit has been on there for 14 years. IF it took out a stator in it's current configuration, then it would be safe to assume a PO would have replaced this homebrew solution as well. I'll agree that we don't know how many miles were put on in 14 years. But if the bike is in riding condition it was probably ridden consistent enough in the last 14 years to test this design. Also the OE design of the wiring with a headlight on/off switch dropped out a leg correct? So I think it's safe to assume there's not enough over voltage from 2 legs only to fry the battery. Also looking at the OE wiring diagram of a GS850G, there's only one leg being regulated anyways.
I'm not saying anyone go out and replicate this design, but it goes to show there's more than one way to skin a cat and if it's not broke don't fix it. It provides an interesting talking point at least.
This is really not worth discussing.
The designer of this R/R simply duplicated the crudest form (single phase control) of SHUNT regulation known but used mechanical ingenuity to make sure it was thermally over designed to avoid burning up the R/R. Unless we see more pictures, the designer seems to have failed to improve on the most important element the ground(there has to be a ground for the solenoid to work so it is grounded some where). He seems to have simply replicated what the Suzuki grounding for this model.(i.e. a single ground B/W wire from harness to the side plate).
I'm sorry after all of the charging woes that have been bestowed on the motorcycling public (95%+ of motorcycles have been designed with shunt R/R's and associate troubles)with this type of technology, I can't find the will for patting this copy cat designer on the back. It was expedient and that is about it.
8
81GS850
Guest
I just think it's interesting that someone came up with an ingenuity fix. I'm a Product Engineer for a Starter and alternator company (don't know if this hurts my credibility or not lol) and I couldn't build that from scratch cause I don't have the full understanding of it.
My point is, the person that understood enough to build this circuit probably knew enough about the weakness in the ground paths and corrected that at the same time. I would be interesting if the Original poster could take more pictures. Specifically where all the ground paths go and where all the wires connect to on this "homebrew" solution.
I have to admit it is much more attractive in an "industrial" style than it is functional. While most of the bolts are defined by the Suzuki side plate hole locations, the designer strategically located the SCR for visual appeal and balance. Although the whole thing is a bunch of exposed parts that you would normally find under a protective cover, he laid out the parts for a nice striking visual appeal.
As far as electrical design, he knew enough to find substitute parts to copy the electrical function; the schematic is in the manual. But maybe he did not look at the 1100E manual. That shows that a three phase SCR shunting is used. That apparently did not "impress upon the designer to go that route. It would have probably made the design messier.
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Hi guys, as you know I'm not really worthy of commenting as I am not mechanically inclined. Sorry. Somebody asked about mileage. I know that the guy I bought it from bought it with 17000kms on it. That was ten years ago. It now has 34000kms on it. In that time he has never had to touch the stator or reg/rec systems. Last summer he rode it to the US and about 3000kms, again no issues. The guy he bought it from (I will find out how long he owned it for) said it was there when he bought it.
This has been interesting following along, I will see what else I can find out.
thanks
This has been interesting following along, I will see what else I can find out.
thanks
8
81GS850
Guest
Unless he knew about the design changes, why would he look in ANOTHER bike manual? He saw what he had, made a radioshack homebrew copy, IMPROVED on what was wrong with the electrical system, and it's worked ever since. Why can't it be that simple? 10,000 Miles seems like a pretty good start!
I'm not trying to get into a ****ing match with you. I realize it's not the best solution. But it works and there's no reason to change it if it's working.
trevor, I'm looking forward to more pics and info!
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Having studied these charging systems for close to 5 years now and running several field polls, I can attest that your are making some brasen (and non-technical) assumptions based on a sample size of 1.
8
81GS850
Guest
I'm only looking at this specific case. I'm not saying it's good or bad in this case. I'm just saying that it works. (in this case). And how are they that brazen? You have a guy, that's able to come up with a r/r out of radio shack parts but you don't give him the credit that he's fixed the ground system? Surely trevor can get us more pictures of the entire system and we can make further observations.
I've seen some half assed attempts to fix stuff. This seems well thought out and not half assed.