fat tire

[tkent02]

Most riders can't go ANYWHERE near what these skinny tire bikes can do.
Are you an expert road racer?
If you were you wouldn't be asking these questions.

 

[posplayr]

Most riders can't go ANYWHERE near what these skinny tire bikes can do.
Are you an expert road racer?
If you were you wouldn't be asking these questions.

Agree most riders can't go as fast as the tires will go. If you can get the basic stuff done, like proper suspension setting and descent rear shocks then from what I have seen on GS group rides the major limiting factor is the center stand dragging, then pipes and engine guards. It is not the tires.

Having said that even the sporty bias plys will tend to hunt on the road especially when there are grooves. The one time I road on radial (120/70-17 and 180/55-17), then that effect was non existent. Of course hauling down a 550 lbs beast, I'm going to feel better with a wider front tire and the disks/calipers to go with it.

 

[salty_monk]

Hard parts are definitely the limiting factor after "bottle" on my bikes :lol:

For a translation of bottle check Google UK

 

[posplayr]

Hard parts are definitely the limiting factor after "bottle" on my bikes :lol:

For a translation of bottle check Google UK

Everyone is speaking "American" and here you go thinkin again we will undertstand "English"

 

[tone]

Ive just read all the way through this thread again & am pretty confused after setting up stock gs suspension to my liking & raising the rear a tad i can pretty easilly run to the edge of the skinny rear tyre & often push the front to the point of it getting scary, i'm no racer either, in fact although i'm pretty quick & smooth i'm nowhere near the fastest in group of the people i ride with

The point of all the above is with modern suspension keeping the wheels in contact with the road & modern rubber i cant quite run to the edge of the tyre in normal riding conditions, therefore i'm leaving myself a safty margin which can only be a good thing

I'm also getting myself decent brakes & rubber that will grip rather than the wooden stock rubbish which wouldnt stop a wheelbarrow in a hurry

I expect some people to take issue with the above comments & thats fair enough but i suspect those people have never done a few thousand miles on a gs equiped with modern running gear, so in my opinion are not qualified to comment

cheers tone

 

[posplayr]

Ive just read all the way through this thread again & am pretty confused after setting up stock gs suspension to my liking & raising the rear a tad i can pretty easily run to the edge of the skinny rear tyre & often push the front to the point of it getting scary, i'm no racer either, in fact although i'm pretty quick & smooth i'm nowhere near the fastest in group of the people i ride with

The point of all the above is with modern suspension keeping the wheels in contact with the road & modern rubber i cant quite run to the edge of the tyre in normal riding conditions, therefore i'm leaving myself a safty margin which can only be a good thing

I'm also getting myself decent brakes & rubber that will grip rather than the wooden stock rubbish which wouldnt stop a wheelbarrow in a hurry

I expect some people to take issue with the above comments & thats fair enough but i suspect those people have never done a few thousand miles on a gs equiped with modern running gear, so in my opinion are not qualified to comment

cheers tone

I don't disagree with anything you are saying. It really is increased safety margin that I'm looking for on my ED conversion. Of course after I'm done with my conversion and I start taking high speed sweepers at 90 mph as opposed to only 75 mph then safety is a relative term.

My comments were coming from my most recent experience following a fellow member from here on the site. My ED although with stock suspension benefits from stiff front progressive springs, racetech cartridge emulators, Ohlins SU-143 and Sport Demons all round (no center stand and racing Yoshi pipe coming down the center). As I pushed to stay on his tail through some quick side to side turns, I could see him starting to run into suspension bottoming out and side stands drags keeping him from pushing the bike any further.

It would be a false impression to suggest that the stock GS without the center stand will go just as fast as an GSXR conversion on a GS without center stand. I hope I did not leave that impression

I think the original message that was being suggested at the beginning of this tread, was that there are at least a couple of issues with trying to shove a big tire on the back of the GS as a single upgrade.

1.) A bigger tire alone without being properly sized to a stock rim even if from another GS (like going to an 1150 rim and 140 rear) probably will not improve overall performance substantially if at all because it will likely not solve the bottoming issues mentioned above. The bigger danger is trying to put too big a tire on a small rim and ruining the grip characteristics of that bigger tire. So just doing bigger rear tire on an otherwise stock GS will likely do little. Overdone will actually hurt.

2.) I don't recall, but I don't think anybody was saying a full GSXR conversion was not going to be noticeable nor would not substantially change the ride, performance and safety of the bike.

So in my mind the issue is really pretty much an all or nothing proposition. You either upgrade the whole package forks,wheels,brakes (swinger as required) or you pretty much stick to 1 size over stock rims you can find on the rear and do few other things mentioned.

Of course within the "all" alternative, that could mean 18" 1st gen with RSU or 17" second gen with USD or even mono shocking.

Taking a stock GS and stuffing a 180/55-17 on the rear (using a GS1100E swing arm even) will not do a whole lot in and of itself if you are still dragging parts immediately when pushing the turns. The suspension upgrades will hopefully allow you to stop that parts dragging so that is why you have to go the "all" route. Modern radial tires are a big plus, but as you know you cant use those on stock GS rims. Brakes are a further bonus as has been mentioned.

 

[lurch12_2000]

i have a 80 gs750 want a fatter tire in the bike what would need to be dont/modified in order to achieve that. looking for a 170 even better 180

I took your original post and will answer it from a philisophical and practical view.
I recommend that you stay with the 120 or 130 rear tire that this bike was designed for and here are some reasons:

1. most riders don't even push the existing "skinny" tires to the limit now.
2. they are cheaper than the "fat" tires.
3. most buyers (75% by my guess) would prefer stock tires because they don't trust what the seller tries to tell them about their "improvements"
4. why spend $$ for expensive mods (rims, swing arm, etc...) to accomodate the "fat" tire, which again most of us don't trust what you might tell me about how much better it handles because some experts said so on the web.
5. after all those so called improvements in handling, tell me how often I can use it on the byways of New England. Between wet leaves in the fall, frost heaves in the spring, washouts and gravel on the roads after summer downpours, frequent rains, chopped up roads with 2" breaks in the pavement, blind curves with driveway entrances lurking around just about every one of them, slow moving farm vehicles that suddenly block your angle on back roads... do you still want try to prove to me that your expensively modded bike with a new "fat" tire handles better at 80mph on these roads and take a chance on "losing it" anyway due to above mentioned road conditions?

Do whatever you want...it's your bike. I'll stick with my 120(and maybe the 130 if I can't find the 120's) rear tire on all my GSes and will stay within 20-30mph "over" back road speed limits for thrills and never even push the bike to it's handling limits.
I don't own a racetrack, or have manicured roads up here, or have "spotters" clearing the road ahead for me, and am trying to hang on to my license, even though I've been stopped more than a few times for excessive speeds on back roads in the last year on my skinny, old, tired GSes with stock forks and no mods.....

 

[Jethro]

I just saw an 02 Bandit with 4800 miles on it in perfect shape that the guy was asking $2800 for. In this current economy I think it's pure madness to hack up and spend money on a perfectly good GS when you can get modern rubber attached to a modern bike for peanuts.

 

[saffa]

i find this thread to be quite incredible...you look through various threads and theres folks chopping up perfectly good GS's all the time . some turn out good , others worse than they started, loads of which get applauded and volumes spoken about how great they are.
then joe soap here wants to do the same sort of thing , ie chop up a perfectly good GS, and all he gets is negativity and reasons not to .
and as for just buying a modern bike for the same money .......wheres the fun in that ...

i have a 80 gs750 want a fatter tire in the bike what would need to be dont/modified in order to achieve that. looking for a 170 even better 180

find the parts i mentioned earlier and take it to a professional if youre a mechanical numpty. (but do the front too)

 

[posplayr]

I took your original post and will answer it from a philisophical and practical view.
I recommend that you stay with the 120 or 130 rear tire that this bike was designed for and here are some reasons:

1. most riders don't even push the existing "skinny" tires to the limit now.
2. they are cheaper than the "fat" tires.
3. most buyers (75% by my guess) would prefer stock tires because they don't trust what the seller tries to tell them about their "improvements"
4. why spend $$ for expensive mods (rims, swing arm, etc...) to accomodate the "fat" tire, which again most of us don't trust what you might tell me about how much better it handles because some experts said so on the web.
5. after all those so called improvements in handling, tell me how often I can use it on the byways of New England. Between wet leaves in the fall, frost heaves in the spring, washouts and gravel on the roads after summer downpours, frequent rains, chopped up roads with 2" breaks in the pavement, blind curves with driveway entrances lurking around just about every one of them, slow moving farm vehicles that suddenly block your angle on back roads... do you still want try to prove to me that your expensively modded bike with a new "fat" tire handles better at 80mph on these roads and take a chance on "losing it" anyway due to above mentioned road conditions?

Do whatever you want...it's your bike. I'll stick with my 120(and maybe the 130 if I can't find the 120's) rear tire on all my GSes and will stay within 20-30mph "over" back road speed limits for thrills and never even push the bike to it's handling limits.
I don't own a racetrack, or have manicured roads up here, or have "spotters" clearing the road ahead for me, and am trying to hang on to my license, even though I've been stopped more than a few times for excessive speeds on back roads in the last year on my skinny, old, tired GSes with stock forks and no mods.....

As a general rule, if we are talking twisty curves and speeds from 20-40 mph the advantage of the newer suspension are significantly less than when you start to push from 50-100 mph. Of course it would be reckless to suggest going any faster than that . Generally the faster you are going the more diff the suspensions make.

I recently did a ride with a new group to me out on Hwy 133. One guy was a GS'er here with a modded GS550 and I had no trouble staying out in front of him or passing anytime I had a chance (I'm talking curves more than straight line speed). His other buddies were all ridding modern bikes (GXSR 750, and a couple Buells). I thought I was being sporty with one of the guys on a Buell streetfighter as least holding my own in some 50-60 mph curves. Later in the ride, they stepped it up to what must have been 100+ into some nice sweepers that I felt uneasy at about 85 mphs. So there was a big step up there and they just were gone. No GS would have kept up with that unless you are talking an expert rider on a full out braced frame race setup. :hand:

 

[Guest]

Agreed. IF i change over my ES to the 86 Gixxer stuff, my main goal is only to get the better brakes and more and modern rubber on the ground. However, I think the large misconception for people looking to do these mods is that it will somehow make the old GS handle like a modern sportbike. What doesnt seem to be understood to the full by the guys just poking around about it (like myself at first) is that the single most limiting factor at that point becomes the frame, followed closely by the weight of the bike to begin with. It will NEVER handle like a GSXR or R1 or the like, even if you go thru with bracing the frame, but it will help to do so. However, the cost factor in this endeavor becomes the NEXT limiting factor for alot of us. When you consider that to do all the necessary modification to make the bike actually HANDLE better other than just having better stopping power and stickier rubber, it simply doesnt make sense. The price tag, all said and done, can end up well over 3 grand, and for that, you can land a NICE Bandit, or a few years old FZ1 or ZRX...

If you rode a stock '83 750 es and then were to ride mine, trust me. You would think differently. My frame is stock also, it's just fine as is. And counting in the $450 that the Hagon shock cost I only have @ $1200 into the swap. Some of the best money I've ever spent.

 

[Beaver]

i find this thread to be quite incredible...you look through various threads and theres folks chopping up perfectly good GS's all the time . some turn out good , others worse than they started, loads of which get applauded and volumes spoken about how great they are.
then joe soap here wants to do the same sort of thing , ie chop up a perfectly good GS, and all he gets is negativity and reasons not to .
and as for just buying a modern bike for the same money .......wheres the fun in that ...

I agree with Saffa. For some of us half the fun in buying old bikes is changing them into something unique and putting our mark on them. I am from the pods, fat tires, 1100 swingarm school of thinking, and have ideas in the pipeline that I don't feel like mentioning here cause I know I will get hopped on. I remember that when I first came here how impressed I was with how unbelievably helpful and kind everyone is and the thousands of posts people make guiding others in their projects. Now that I have been here a bit longer I can feel the undercurrent that lies there sometimes. It is impossible to hide your own prejudices about how you feel these bikes should, but if the guy wants a fat tire cause it looks cool, then where is the harm in telling him what he needs to know?

Do any of your remember what his original question was? In the 4 pages of this thread, GSBobber has made 2 posts gotten useful answers from 2-3 of you and the rest seem to have been made for your own amusement, or just ripped into him

I bought a GS cause it fitted with my budget and being a classic is cheaper to insure. I absolutely love it, and the more I chop and change it the more attached to it I become, I am not a fan of stock GS's, but if that is what tickles your fancy...

 

[posplayr]

OK I tracked down gsbobbers two posts in the thread.

i have a 80 gs750 want a fatter tire in the bike what would need to be dont/modified in order to achieve that. looking for a 170 even better 180

well rj im not an oc chopper wanna be but i am a newb to this im accually trying to build a cafe reson why i want the fat tire is one the look and two the handling i want to be able to take it up to the canyons and be able to handle i just have a hard time trusting the skinny tires the real is currently a 110 and the front a 100 but like i said im a newb. my apologies

He asked how to install a 170 or 180 tire without specifying the reason and the desire to do minimal modifications.

I think the 2.15" wheel, 180 tire hair spray and a lighter answered that question as concisely as possible.

He then later qualified his request to say it was partially for looks, which would have been satisfied by the above solution but went further to say he was looking for performance.

Well that point (as far as I'm concerned ) any discussion of performance involves the whole bike, performance level to be achieved and the degree of modification or budget you have. As it turns out the issue of suspension mods seems to draw a bipolar response from the forum like the pods v.s. air box debate So other than a few less than tactful posts in reference to gsbobber, most every thing in this thread is relevant to consider. Hopefully he got something out of it and hopefully does not have a negative impression from the whole thread.

I don't think we have a lot of Pulitzer prize winners in literature here at GSR and so some may not be able to articulate their positions as well as they would like. I would suggest that the membership take that into consideration when reading other peoples posts and consider what they are trying to say rather than assume it is something negative.:-k

Pos

 

[Sunburn]

I can still scare the chit out of myself with a my "130" rear tire.

again, it's all relative. I hit the "oh chit" speed on a GS much sooner then I would hit an "oh chit" speed on a modern bike. Its still a rush at any speed. I don't care about lap times or the finish line. I only ride for the thrill. When you have fast cornering speed and the bike starts to get a little diabolical on your *ss then your in the zone and best to back off a hair and enjoy it.

Modern bike you need to have another attitude. Some of these bikes are too good for the street. They are coasting at speeds a GS is working hard. If your approaching the limit then your going way too fast and need to back off an appropriate reserve for the street. Too many pin heads crossing the double line or passing in corners as it is. You don't see many GS riders doing that.

A mistake is always bad news up there!

 

[TheCafeKid]

If you rode a stock '83 750 es and then were to ride mine, trust me. You would think differently. My frame is stock also, it's just fine as is. And counting in the $450 that the Hagon shock cost I only have @ $1200 into the swap. Some of the best money I've ever spent.

Dont get me wrong, there will be some handling gains, but its not going to EVER be a modern bike. I have good suspension on my ES, and that bike rails in the corners, pegs draggin, etc. But i feel the frame move before I feel any sloppiness in the suspension. Also, You get off much easier in the wallet dept because you're already running a monoshock, which makes things open up a little better in the choice of routes to take. Guys with twin shock bikes have to do a bit more converting things over to take advantage of larger wheels with modern rubber...

 

[Zooks]

Why not get a new bike that isn't completely ridiculous with a wider tire?

DING DING DING !!!!!!! Give that man the prize.

Why do people insist on destroying the factory geometry of the bike all the time? Just to be able to have a bit of a pose with a fat tyre.

 

[Zooks]

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This will be Brians personal hell. He will be stuck in a room full of guys asking how to put on fat tires and how much shorter they can cut the shocks...

....and - "what oil should I use for my bike?" - "is synthetic better?"

 

[tatumjr]

I bet you did not expect all this did you bobber-dude.....
These guys do however have a metric crap ton of knowledge that has seen my bike from a $500 non-running electrical mess to a running (I'm still cold on two cylinders but should be good after my new/old R/R from Duaneage) bike.
Use the search feature and most of this could have been avoided....Which is why all you guys in GSR land has heard little from me so far.
Anyway, what I'm saying is: TAKE THE ADVISE.

BTW Thanks for all the help you never knew you gave me!!:clap:

 

[gsbobber]

reason why i went with the gs is cause of coarse the cost for one picked up mine running great fresh out the shop with a tune up and carbs rebuilt for 1000 guy was hurting for money insurence was cheap and cus i love the cafe look which is what im going for. plus i like building things having the joy of saying i put that together. i like modern street bikes dont get me wrong but i live in the l.a./o.c. area and everybody around here owns gsxrs, r1's ect. and i just wanted something u dont see everyday and that i could go have fun in i appreciate the advice and will go with the 120 or 130 tire. reason i joined this site is for the info alot of peeps on here that know their ****. and i know that everyone is a critic i can take it no bad feeling here thanks again for the great info now one more ? if i get the bigger tire 120 /130 do i need to get a bigger front tire its a 100

 

[Sunburn]

My tires are 130/100.


If you really want a fat tire do it. Money and skill are the only limiting factor. You will get all the help you can handle here.


You can have $3500 tied up in a GS you paid $1200 for real quick. You wont be riding because it's all in parts or waiting for parts


I say, take your $1200 bike and put another $1500 to make it look real sharp with a 130 tire on the back and ride it all day and night