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Final drive broken!

  • Thread starter Thread starter john82q
  • Start date Start date
J

john82q

Guest
Im new, strated discussing this here. http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=171538

So its broken for sure, evidenced by the clunk and the metal in the oil.
so I ripped the back of the bike to bits...

bad light and phone camera, but you get the idea...

Damn!
5473183479_1ae516be2f.jpg

More to bits than i needed to but am taking the opportunity to tidy a few things in the rear rear up.

The final drive came apart and I found this,
5473777080_8d95497071.jpg



the bearing from the gear end of the pinion
5473795890_190b6eeb34.jpg

This bearing is completly rooted. the inner is worn down over 1 mm.

I think what happened is the needle roller wore out and failed, the thrust of the gears pushing the pinion outwards caused flexing, this flexing fatigued and broke it.

Gunna hit the wreckers tomorrow and see what I can find.

A question, Bike is 82 GS1100G

I read somewhere GS850g is the same unit only with lower gearing can any one confirm? (I am thinking a little bit lower would be better with the sidecar, might spare the clutch abit in the traffic.


Cheers John
 
The 850/1000/1100 rear drive units are all the same other than here in the US, the gearing changed 1983.
 
I think that any 850/1000/1100 unit will work. Starting in '83, the 1100 (maybe only the GK) had a taller ratio, not the direction you want to go. I am under the impression that all the other units had the same ratio. There were differences in the gearbox and secondary drive ratios on the different models, but the final drives were all the same, up to '83.

While you have things apart, be sure to check the splines in the rear wheel hub. The '82s were notoriously weak. Something you want to check, especially with the added load of a hack.

Splines from different years were different colors, which makes it easy to recognize them. '79s and some '80s were black, they are good. Some time in '80 through '82, they changed to a gold-looking metal. These are the soft ones. Starting some time in '83, the splines were silver, these are good.

.
 
All '83 1100G final drive units are 2.8 - GK, GL and regular G. It's urban legend that the ratio change was limited to GK. All other 850/1000/1100 final drive units are 3.1. Here in the states you can pick up a used final drive off ebay for less than the cost to ship it. Hopefully it's a similar situation down under.
 
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Hi Mr. john82q,

Have a look at this article (PDF format) and see if it might help you.

Bevel Gear Shaft Repair
(by Mr. Zooks)

I can't tell if yours is broken in exactly the same spot. Is that broken in the final drive unit or near the u-joint next to the transmission? I just wanted to bring up the possibility of repair if you can't find a replacement.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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The two different ratios were 3.09 and 2.90:1. I have a high milage 3.09:1 unit with a leaky seal for free if you'll pay shipping. You'll probably find one local for less though.

Good luck with it.

Buddy
 
Hi,

FWIW, collected on my little website:

Shaft Drive Gear Ratio Chart - courtesy of Mr. Nessism

ShaftDriveGSgearratios.jpg



Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
I have seen some on Aussie ebay recently, shouldnt be too hard to find one.
 
Buddy said:
The two different ratios were 3.09 and 2.90:1. I have a high milage 3.09:1 unit with a leaky seal for free if you'll pay shipping. You'll probably find one local for less though.

Good luck with it.

Buddy
Click to expand...

You are correct. My memory has betrayed me again.:(
 
To clarify::: That looks like the output from the beveled gears-back of engine not rear differential... THE 850 beveled gears will NOT fit a 1100 motor, not sure on the 1000. Get Cliff's pdf file and fix it.. Common problem with the 1100. The rear differentials are the same other than the gear ratio if that's what you need..
 
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final drive of diff if you prefer

final drive of diff if you prefer

Just to be clear were talking about the driving gear in the final drive at the wheel not the driven gear in the gearbox end.

So I went to a wrecker and examined a some FD units and picked out a 2.9/1 one. Then proceeded to argue with the guy:mad:

If your in Brisbane dont ever go to the wreckers in Albion that blokes a f'ing tool!

short of it is, he would not set a price, instead insisted I name a price, haveing seen one on evil bay for $40US I offered $80, thinking it was fair.
he got in a huff and refused to sell me the drive, saying he couldnt be bothered to take it off the bike for that much. (funny cause there it was on the bench, good to go) But then he was still refusing to name his price.
Unbeliveable, In the end I got the s***s and walked out.

Found one on findapart.com.au for $140 delivered, thought that was a bit dear...

Got to thinking, about modding the shaft as per the zook article.
would need kit of spares from all bearings and seals.

suzuki dealer $450 !
same kit from Babbits online $188 but $170.00 frieght (358)
can't win...ring some more wreckers I think...

john
 
take your seals and bearings along to CBC or the like and be amazed at how much cheaper things can be when you remove a couple of middle men. May be an idea to take the shafts and housings along for measuring if you can no longer read the info on the seals and bearings
 
john82q said:
Just to be clear were talking about the driving gear in the final drive at the wheel not the driven gear in the gearbox end.

So I went to a wrecker and examined a some FD units and picked out a 2.9/1 one. Then proceeded to argue with the guy:mad:

If your in Brisbane dont ever go to the wreckers in Albion that blokes a f'ing tool!

short of it is, he would not set a price, instead insisted I name a price, haveing seen one on evil bay for $40US I offered $80, thinking it was fair.
he got in a huff and refused to sell me the drive, saying he couldnt be bothered to take it off the bike for that much. (funny cause there it was on the bench, good to go) But then he was still refusing to name his price.
Unbeliveable, In the end I got the s***s and walked out.

Found one on findapart.com.au for $140 delivered, thought that was a bit dear...

Got to thinking, about modding the shaft as per the zook article.
would need kit of spares from all bearings and seals.

suzuki dealer $450 !
same kit from Babbits online $188 but $170.00 frieght (358)
can't win...ring some more wreckers I think...

john
Click to expand...

Man that makes me mad! If that's the same guy that does the head work, then I'm not surprised that was his response though.

I called to get my valves faced just before Christmas and his response was $20, but with such a "I can't be bothered doing anything that little" attitude that I didn't bother even trying to get them to him. Got much better service elsewhere...

Not sure how good they are but I recall there's supposed to be a wrecker in Newstead and another in Woolloongabba, and there's also another one called Tiaro Motorcycle Wreckers.

http://www.tiaromotorcyclewreckers.com/
 
that wrecker

that wrecker

albion/newstead near the creek in the end of the apptly named Bogun St. (yes really!) I saw he had a machine shop, too.
With customer skills like that they must/should be going rusty.

Shame he quite a bit of GS stuff, but I'll never go back...

john
 
Yeah that's the guy.

Apparently he's some sort of guru with heads and stuff, but with his customer service skills I'll never find out.

If you need head work done, I can only recommend you go to Northside Cylinder Head Specialists, they were all friendly and helpful and I thought the price was great too.

The older guy there on a Saturday morning took me in and showed me around while he faced my valves too.

I was happy enough with the facing that I took my cylinders back and got them honed there also.

Pity they don't do motorcyle wrecking though...
 
If only it were that easy

If only it were that easy

take your seals and bearings along to CBC
Click to expand...
If only it were that easy, well it almost was, went to 3 different bearing supply places and got the same story the two needle bearings are a odd size and made of unobtainium and simply not made any more.

Wound up however I did buy all the other seals and bearings at a fraction of the cost at suzuki. Now suprizingly Suzuki did have the needle rollers in stock so I brought them, only to find the inners are not included and deemed to be part of the gears. Grrrr! back down the bearing shop sorted...

This is costing more than a wrecker, but then the drive will be as good as new, and not already have 100,000 k on it. worth it cause it works harder with the overloaded sidecar...


so tonight i fired up my lathe.

5525590037_0143b98118_z.jpg


facing off the broken stub
5526180270_4743fd9d95.jpg

drilled the hole, actually quite soft in the middle, the blue burn is not from drilling heat its from when it broke, the splines still seem hard an are not worn or distorted.


heres a question;
I think this drive got real hot at some stage as the chrome on the casing has peeled in a couple of places. Any tips on;
- how to strip the remainer?
-what to refinish it with?

was thinking wire brush and clear coat, any ideas?

Cya John
 
opinons sought

opinons sought

for some reason the nose of the crown wheel has corroded. water in the seal i guess. Theres a ring of piting where the oils seal runs, there deep enough to feel with the finger nail, and wont polish out with emery cloth.
( well not with out reducing the size,it is case hardened too>

best of the bad photography below,

I have a new seal, but I dont want it to chew out early.
Any ideas how to repair cheaply?

john

5570637139_d4c41149e2_b.jpg
 
You need something like this... http://www.kutzendoerfer.at/files/speedisleeve.pdf

or, you could try using some sort of metallic plastic (epoxy) to fill in the groove and polish smooth. or possibly that method used in conjunction with not seating the seal fully, allowing the seal to ride on a different portion of the surface.
 
Yup, use a speedi-sleeve kit. ;)
I have even used them on crankshafts. Far less expensive than replacement.
Or, first, you could try and replace the original single lip seal with a double lip seal that rides on both sides of the damaged area.
I have found that to be very effective and cheap!
thumb3.gif



Daniel
 
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