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Finding neutral when rolling

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My 81 1100e has a problem slipping into neutral as I roll to a stop. It's a miracle if I can find it from second gear, and then It can be equally as difficult to find it from first. If I roll the bike a little bit or let the clutch out a little and then pull it back in and try again, I can usually find it without too much trouble. Likewise , with the engine off , I can move the rear wheel a little bit and find a spot where it will easily click from first to neutral to second and back. That tells me that I don't have a problem with that spring number 21 that I've read so much about. It seems to me that it also rules out the clutch, but I honestly don't know. I started with this bike two years ago with a stuck clutch. It had been sitting for at least 15 years, outside, but I got everything working fine. The steels did measure thin though, at 1.9 mm, vs min spec of 1.94, and the friction plates measured 2.9 to min spec of 2.9, according to Clymer. The springs were fine, the steels were flat, and there was no excessive gouging on the clutch basket. All other shifting is fine. I don't know how the clutch plates would be that thin after only 20,000 miles, but it seems to still work fine with good engagement and no slippage. I have a brand-new clutch cable but no amount of adjustment makes this problem even slightly better. I suppose I should buy a whole new OEM clutch (all plates and springs), which is about $250 from Babbitts, but I'm not convinced that would solve this problem. What do you think is going on?
 
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What possible reason do you have for not staying in gear with clutch lever drawn in.
Fiddling with neutral and not being in an immediate state allowing for quick movement is dangerous.

I have driven many bikes and none were easy to find neutral on.
True of my 550 and much better shifting 1300
 
I've had issues like you describe and fixed it by replacing the clutch plates. Before going to that extreme I measured the parts like you did and everything seemed reasonable. Based on that I'm of the belief that measuring those parts is difficult and doesn't tell the whole story.

Of course this assumes you have the cable properly adjusted. On my bike I was running almost no freeplay but the issue persisted regardless.

If you replace the plates I recommend the OEM parts. They are not cheap, but going OEM eliminates questions.
 
Try adjusting the clutch cable with the adjuster at the bars......if there isnt enough threads left on the adjuster turn it IN till its about half way back in the perch. Then do the major adjustment down at the clutch cover till you get the lever almost fully closed. THEN... use the adjuster at the bars to readjust while trying to get N from a dead stop with the engine running. Many times its a cable adjustment issue that doesnt release enough pressure off the clutch that makes it bind and then suddenly "snap past " Neutral and fall into 1st or 2nd gear.
 
It's all to do with clutch drag loading the gear dogs and making neutral selection notchy. Yes, the film of oil between the separated plates...

btw, it is good practice when sitting at red lights to have the bike in neutral, left foot down, right foot up and rear brake on. The procedure is called the Croydon Shuffle: http://www.600riders.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-18115.html I expect many to disagree about this

the best solution to neutral finding difficulties is to buy a Kawasaki. At a standstill they only go into neutral from first. You have to be rolling in order to go 1-2
 
Jonathan said:
the best solution to neutral finding difficulties is to buy a Kawasaki. At a standstill they only go into neutral from first. You have to be rolling in order to go 1-2
Click to expand...

You need to get out more if you think only Kawasaki's do this.
 
To the OP - what do you have your idle set at? A high idle can sometimes cause difficulties finding neutral.
 
Jonathan.....I have it in gear at lights with room for me to hit a shoulder if need be. In first gear, both feet planted, and eyeballing the mirror for anything that looks like its not gonna stop in time behind me. Time spent shifting to gear is time wasted that just may PREVENT you from getting out of the way in time. You do whatever you want to though.
 
My idle is at 1100. I've tried every possible clutch adjustment including no free play. I had several of these bikes back in the day, and I don't remember any of them being this problematic around neutral. Suzukis were better than the Kawasaki's with their engines, transmissions, and frames. All the rest of my shifts are smooth, just like I remember. So far I haven't seen anybody tell me to tear things apart and buy parts. That means I can still run it and fun, which is exactly what I'm going to do.
 
You wont hurt anything in the motor by riding it just with neutral being hard to find.

If you cant "fix" it with cable / idle adjustment then it's probably the clutch plates (there's not much left to look at).

I guess it depends on whether the problem annoys you enough to spend $250 on a new clutch pack.
 
This bike had rust on every fastener and a seized chain when I got it. It's downright fun now.
 

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Very nice bike. Gives one a certain pride when returning what other had written off to a state of useablility again. Then the reward of her returning to the open road with you as the pilot...cant beat it !!!!
 
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My '79 550 has the same issue (if you want to call it that), as does my friends '82 Z500, and my brother's '81 Yama SR250 to a lesser extent. My '14 Guzzi does find Neutral easily.

In my experience with the bikes above, I found that bikes with a "short" gear actuation path (not sure how to call it) are temperamental finding Neutral, those with a longer one usually are not. OTOH, from a standstill, the latter sometimes don't fall into gear as easily.

But I have yet to check/replace the clutch pack on the 550, so take my experience as you want.
 
I've found neutral easily when accelerating at near redline from first to second:nightmare:
 
Does it get easier to find neutral after the bike is good a warmed up? Mine can be a little difficult cold but gets better after it warms up especially when the outside temps are below 60 or so. Ive blamed on oil drag and maybe a thinner oil would help but it hasn't been enough of an issue for me to be concerned. Im sure mine would be more noticeable if I lived up north where the temps are allot cooler.
 
A couple of thoughts. My bike shifts smoother with fresh oil in it. You've mentioned that it shifts fine, but maybe take note after the next oil change. Also, could it just be a matter of getting to know the bike? Mine is also a bit fiddly finding neutral from a stop, but when rolling, a quick light tap down from second finds neutral most of the time.

As mentioned, in neutral at a stop robs you of precious time if you spot impending doom.
The mentioned fancy footwork seems like nothing but a distraction from soptting the mentioned inpending doom. In first, clutch in, front brake applied, and scanning the surroundings seems much simpler and safer.
I recently saw a BMW dual sport rider at a light. I guess he was trying to anticipate the green light, because he began repeatedly pulling in the clutch and preparing to put it in gear as the green approached. It seemed silly.
 
Jonathan said:
btw, it is good practice when sitting at red lights to have the bike in neutral, left foot down, right foot up and rear brake on.
Click to expand...

No. Wrong. The best practice is to have it in FIRST gear, clutch in, left foot down, right foot on rear brake. This gives you the quickest way to accelerate to your pre-planned escape route if a vehicle violates your space.
 
JJ said:
No. Wrong. The best practice is to have it in FIRST gear, clutch in, left foot down, right foot on rear brake. This gives you the quickest way to accelerate to your pre-planned escape route if a vehicle violates your space.
Click to expand...

Agree 100% with this.
 
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