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first ever valve check

  • Thread starter Thread starter MFerioli
  • Start date Start date
M

MFerioli

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I just checked vavle clearances for the first time on this bike and ever. The feeler guauge I have only goes down to .038 mm, which apparently wasn't small enough. I have only had the bike for about a month now and have no idea if any valve work has ever been done. I do know that .03mm is the low end for clearance. I think that 5 out of the 8 where too tight for my .038 gauge, is this normal? I'll have to source a proper gauge that goes below .03 so that I can find out for sure what they are. Is there any other reason for this besides shims that are too big?

Would tight valve clearances or no valve clearances mean that the valves are not completely seating?

Am I wrong to assume that if the range is .03 to .08, that ideally I should be around .055?


'79 GS850, 50,000 mi, 100lbs in each cylinder (I was guessing rings because its old, but could be a valve thing...right?)

Thanks for the insight,
Mike
 
When the valve train wears, the clearances get tighter. The major points of wear are the valve seat and valve sealing face; as they wear the valve moves up toward the camshaft. Aiming right for the middle is OK, but because of that tendency of the valves to wear tight, it's better to be loose than tight. Some will run their valves up to .10mm. If the gaps got down to 0 your valves would hang open if only a tiny bit. Some say that if you can turn your buckets without much effort you are at least >0, though a few of my valves might have been barely negative clearance and I could still move the buckets. Get yourself some nice metric feeler gauges which run down to .03.

Did you get a shim tool, or are you going to use the zip-tie method? You should pull and check all the shims to catalog the sizes in there. Maybe you only need to replace one or two. You can also e-mail Steve (search the board for "spreadsheet" and his name will invariably come up) for his valve-tracking spreadsheet.
 
i did mine for the first time this fall. It's easy. Go to Basscliffs website and he has a very good tutorial on how to do this. The zip tie method is easy and cheap.

After reading the papers he has on his site and if you have any questions get back to us. I read his papers and it explained most everything. There is a shim club here to that you can exchange shims so you don't have to go out and find some. Again, do a search for shim club and you'll find the contact person. He's a great guy along with Basscliff.
 
Oh, and overly tight valves could cause you to lose compression, and thus I'd recommend doing a valve adjust before a compression test. 100psi is getting pretty low - but you don't say if that was cold or hot. If it was cold then it should get better hot. You can also confirm ring sealing issues by doing a "wet" test: put about 1/2 tsp - not much more - of oil in through the spark plug hole, crank it two or 3 times to distribute, then re-run (all this hot, BTW - the only time you should do a compression test cold is if you have no choice i.e., the bike's not running). If you gain say 20+ psi your rings are probably on their way out. The compression should be very even between cylinders. Make sure you're holding the throttle wide open for the test, too.
 
Valve clearance in a GS generally changes very slowly, with the net effect being smaller clearances over time. It is possible that at 50k miles your valves have never been adjusted, but still have clearance. If you can easily spin the bucket with your finger when checking clearances, then the valve is seated and is not affecting compression numbers. One common cause of lower compression is carbon buildup on the valve/seat. Pulling and cleaning the head/valves is the only way to fix that, and you can also replace the valve seals (probably needed). Valve clearances will need to be rechecked after valve/seat cleaning.
 
Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. MFerioli,

A little over two years ago I bought my 850 with 13,800 miles on the odometer. I don't think the valves had ever been adjusted. The first time I did a valve check on my bike I had to change out 5 shims. A couple of them had to go down two sizes! The next time I had to swap out 2 shims. Keep fresh oil in it and eventually the engine will "stabilize". The last time I didn't have to swap any. Run them more towards the loose end of the spec, where possible, to keep from swapping shims as often. It starts better and run better with valves on the loose end of spec. There's a complete "How to" guide for valve adjustments on my website. OK, now it's time for my "welcome thing"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike! :D

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Thanks for all the great thoughts, and for my very own mega welcome! So it seems that I should definitely get those clearances up a bit. Is there some place that I can buy a shim kit of some sort? or should I open it back up and figure out what sizes I think I should buy? I'd rather have a bunch of shims in hand and only have to open it back up once if possible.

I'd love to pull the head and clean all carbon out too...but that would probably require a whole weekend of nice dry weather for me to accomplish. I think I should try the shims first and see how that goes, then wait till the end of the season before pulling the head.

I'll need to do a more proper compression test afterwards and see what I get then, I don't remember how hot the engine was when i did it. I like the wet test as well.

I'll search for that shim club, that could be the way to go for shure.

Thanks for the info about the clearance spreadsheet, I'll look that up. I don't know if the buckets would spin, I didn't try that but I certainly will when I open it up again.

ohh, what is the reccomended source for the appropriate tools? Does anyone actually buy those tools listed in the suzuki book?

Thanks again for all the help,
Mike
 
Oh, that BassCliff and his mega-welcomes. Great stuff in there, and he has a great tutorial on measuring these valve clearances.

Dunno about the official suzuki tool, but there is a Motion Pro shim tool available for about $15 (@Z1) for shim replacement, and yes I bought that. I know the zip-tie technique exists for free but the tool means I can pull the shims one-at-a-time without any thought or any worries about turning the camshaft without a shim in a bucket (a definite no-no, BTW).

Z1 enterprises (z1enterprises.com) sells shims for about $5 each plus the shim changing tool. They have great customer service too. They also sell a shim kit for ~$110, but because it's very unlikely that you'll ever need all the different sizes of shims in there it's not likely to be fiscally efficient. Again, it's a really good idea to catalog your shims. Having a metric micrometer is also very helpful in this regard, because although shims have their sizes printed on the underside everyone seems to have a few where those numbers have rubbed off.

Figure out what sizes you have, what sizes you need (assume you need to go up one size as a first guess if you can't otherwise measure, then get those metric feelers and verify), and come up with a swapping plan where you can just switch 'em around with minimal purchase. It can also be very useful to get a very thin shim - a few sizes smaller than the smallest you have - to make a big gap you can measure. If you had a 2.20 shim and a Motion Pro tool you'd be ordering shims right now :) Maybe one of the ones you can measure is the thinnest and you can swap that around to measure some of the others.
 
Hi,

Z1enterprises has the tappet tool (some use the "zip tie" method) and the best prices on shims. They also sell a shim set but almost half will probably be to large for you to use anyway, making it not such a great deal.

Measure your clearances, inventory your shims, then you'll know what you need to order to get your valves in spec.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
mike_of_bbg said:
Figure out what sizes you have, what sizes you need (assume you need to go up one size as a first guess if you can't otherwise measure)
Click to expand...

Actually, you will be going down sizes, not up ;)

The valves get tighter as they wear resulting in less gap at the shim, so you need to use smaller (thinner) shims to get that gap back to spec...

Good luck with the valve adjust. After you do a couple, it's very easy...
 
Thanks hikermikem, that was a simple goof on my part after explaining earlier that they wear tight :)
 
mike_of_bbg said:
You can also e-mail Steve (search the board for "spreadsheet" and his name will invariably come up) for his valve-tracking spreadsheet.
Click to expand...
You can also do an "advanced" search for his (my) name and find contact information directly. :rolleyes:

OR ... you can just wait for him (me) to see this thread and comment on it,
then just click on his (my) name in the upper left corner and look for the e-mail address info. :D

By the way, I will agree that the zip-tie method works very well. I have the 'special' tool, but prefer the zip-tie.
It takes a bit more rotating the crank, but I have problems trying to keep the tool on the edge of the bucket,
so the zip-tie ends up being quicker and less frustrating for me.

.
 
Thanks again guys,
I'll let you know how it goes once I get them all spaced out correctly.

Mike
 
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