First ride - Minor? Issues

[WilliamGLX81]

81 GS650GL - new tires, cleaned carbs, replaced fuel line, new fuel filter, Air filter needs to be oiled (is oiled, but not by me).

Hey!! I just got back from my first ride. Looked like it might rain all day, but I went anyway.

Yes, one of these is fuel/carb related, but there's not a general forum anymore.

So, here are the most minor issues:
Speedo... jitters. It's a new cable, and probably needs to be lubed. The old cable was crushed when I got the bike, and when I replaced it, the cable end was torn off the cable.
It never exceeded 40, even though I'm sure I hit.. uh. Whatever speed is 5K in 5th gear.

Tach - Makes a horrible whining noise. Imagine an electric can opener. It's worse on acceleration, and when the cable is screwed in all the way. The face of the tach is cracked, and I think it could use replacing, but fixing it for now would be good.

Handlebars - How do you tell if they're bent? My left hand was very comfortable, my right, not at all. I felt fine at first, but after 20 minutes, my wrist started to hurt. It seems like the right handlebar is nearer to me than the left. Is this a phenomenon, or is there a test? I know it's been laid down once, and dropped :ahem: a couple times. The right brake lever was majorly bent before I replaced it.


And now - Fuel/Carb issues.

After the bike was well warmed up, I was driving into the wind. The engine bogged down in 5th, I downshifted and 4th was fine for about 30 seconds, then it started doing it in 4th too. Luckily I was on my way home.
I let out the clutch a little, and let the throttle goose itself - Voila - power is back for 30 seconds.
Then it came back.

No issues accelerating in town, or low gears (except when I stalled it twice >.< ). Any educated guesses? Maybe it's too rich, or the fuel delivery is botched. I'm using a paper media filter at the moment, but it looks like it has more surface area than the clear ones.

I'd really appreciate some guidance. No, I did not replace the intake boots - I think they've been replaced. They're pretty pliable. I spent a good $600 on the bike (been saving) this week and don't have money to just throw parts at it. It's running new copper NGK d8ea's (if I remember the code right) and at idle, the bike seems to be just fine. Exhaust pulses are even and regular.

Thanks very much,
William

 

[almarconi]

Speedo - cables are usually shipped dry, take it apart and oil it.

Tach - Cable could need lubricating or tach is damaged.

Handlebars - look at them from the side and see if they are tweaked. If the bike was dropped bars can easily get bent. Any damage to the Master Cylinder or levers on the handle bars. Scuffs or damage to the engine covers. All signs that bike has been dropped.

When was the last time you changed the clutch springs? If they are original they are old and need to be replaced. Cost less than $15 for the springs and will make a world of difference.

 

[Guest]

You're running out of gas in the float bowls.
Did you set the float heigth and is the petcock good?

 

[WilliamGLX81]

Thanks for the replies:

I checked the float heights, only one needed to be tweaked (but it was the first one I checked). They were all at the 22mm mark, when just touching the needle valve and not depressing it.

The petcock could use a rebuild. It's very stiff to turn. My brother and I had it out while emptying the tank back in December (Or those meds were really good) and the in-tank filter looked old, but mostly serviceable.
I'd believe the petcock is to blame.
Rebuild it? Uh... Think there's a problem with vacuum to it possibly? It's VERY stiff to turn, and I saw it noted in a couple posts.

I'm sure both cables need lube, at least. What kind of lube? Where do I get it? White lithium grease?

I doubt the clutch springs have been changed. Bike has "8,000" miles on it. But then the speedo cable was broken, and riding with a broken speedin = no recorded miles. I think I just stalled it by letting it out too quickly. A little case of the nerves. It was a pretty quiet traffic day.

When I noticed that the bike was bogging, I also noticed that I had the throttle turned quite a bit - almost 1/4 throttle to stay cruising. I was going up a hill, but it kept happening after that.

So, while cruising at a stable engine speed, you think I'm consuming more fuel than the bowls fill? That would be confirmed by the bike having no issues accelerating from stopped, but revving it higher at speed also helped. If the bowls weren't full enough for it to keep running at the speed it was, would it have been able to rev higher?


That's all I can think of for now,
William

 

[1_v8_merc]

You check the gas tank for rust yet?
That was a huge issue on my 650.

Rust or something else could be getting up in your carbs and giving you a choppy RPM when riding. Something must be causing some pretty good blockage if it's doing it while riding. Usually rust affects your idle first, but who knows.

As for the petcock, Mine was the same way when I got my bike, had to use ****ing pliers just to turn it. I took it apart and cleaned it, but it didn't help much. These petcocks are just like that! Some days mine turns
very easily, other times i gotta use some force.
As long as it's not leaking i would consider yourself lucky and just leave it
alone unless you really feel compelled to repair it.
There have been plenty of people on here that attempt a rebuild then have
notorious leaking problems,etc... Even with the brand new ones too!

Did you check your spark plugs after riding for a while?
Do they look white, black, covered in fuel?

White = too lean
Black= rich.

It's better to run rich, running too lean can really destroy
these bikes! Apparently the GS's already run too lean from the factory
so check it out. You'd be amazed how much better and stronger it
will run just by enriching it a little bit.

They are the flathead screws on the front nose of your carbs.
Counter clock wise enrichens it, and clockwise leans it.
They normally are about 2 or 2 1/2 turns out from lightly seated,
just to give you an idea.

Also, how are the valves doing?
This was another huge problem area.
But usually if you have idle problems or feel way too dry or lean
then that could mean your valves are too tight, but I doubt that's your problem.

 

[WilliamGLX81]

Ahh, thank you, thank you.

I seem to have a little, tiny bit of superficial rust, but nothing was caught in the petcock filter, nor the inline filter that I replaced. The carbs also had no rust, but one had something that looked like cat litter in it. I have no idea what that was.

I'll check the plugs tomorrow, plus take a test ride out to my school. If my wrist isn't sore when I get there, it'll maybe become my daily driver Since I waste upwards of 8 hours a week waiting on the bus, and my car has a blown headgasket and needs an engine (it has other issues).

So, I will check out the screws... are those the idle air screws on the tops of the carbs, or are they the ones in the sides of the intake boots?

Is there a section in the FAQ around here about adjusting the carb settings? I know just about zilch about carbs.

If they are the "idle air" screws, then they are all about 2.5-3.5 turns out from seated. I checked each of them and matched them.

I want to fix the gas gauge, so I plan to just fix the petcock when I do that.

Ok, off to bed and I'll report on the plugs in the morning after the test ride.

 

[Nessism]

When you cleaned the carbs did you take them all the way apart and replace all the O-rings? Did you replace the intake boot O-rings? Did you hold the pilot jets up to a light to make sure they are open? All these things need to be done if you haven't already William.

The Suzuki cables are ready to install when you get them so you do not have to lube them. Sounds like your gauges are junk, as are your handlebars.

Fuel filters often cause a restriction and are generally not recommended unless you get the kind for a lawn mower or similar gravity feed fuel system. Also, these GS bikes won't run properly without the airbox properly installed and sealed unless you rejet the carbs. Has your bike been modified in any way?

 

[WilliamGLX81]

Nessism:
I completely pulled apart the carbs, down to individual parts. Each and every jet, I verified I could see light through, then sprayed carb cleaner through and checked the flow. The pilot needle jets, I covered one end and established that they all had good flow.

The o-rings were not replaced. I plan to do it in the future. The only o-rings that needed replacing were on the fuel inlet needle valve filters, and they still sealed tightly, they were just ugly.

The cable is aftermarket, not a suzuki, and I was able to look at the cable - it was completely dry. The gauges may be junk, but I'll spend $7 on cable lube before I spend $50 on gauges.

The bike hasn't been modified at all, though the brake lever and MC Are from a 70's Honda scooter... I'll get to that eventually, but it works for now.

The airbox is installed and .... HEY! I remember leaving the last band clamp between the 1-to-4 intake split and the airbox loose! I'll fix that.

This fuel filter is a paper media filter made for automotive use. I believe it's for carb'ed vehicles. Think a restriction would cause that kind of problem? It doesn't complain at all when I gwonch on it in first and second.

I'll pull the plugs in an hour or so (before the ride).
William

 

[almarconi]

The Suzuki cables are ready to install when you get them so you do not have to lube them.

Ed you must be special..the manufacturer must pre lube yours before you get it.

The last OEM speedo cable I ordered had a label/tag in with it that said that the cable was shipped dry and should be lubricated before use.

 

[Nessism]

Ed you must be special..the manufacturer must pre lube yours before you get it.

The last OEM speedo cable I ordered had a label/tag in with it that said that the cable was shipped dry and should be lubricated before use.

That's interesting news Al. I have a 1000S tach cable in my hands right now, or maybe I should say I have grease from a brand new 1000S tack cable ON my hands now from when I pulled out the inner cable and checked it for lube. Maybe Suzuki lubed some cables and others not.

 

[almarconi]

Its possible that speedo cables are dry and tach cables are lubed, not really sure.

 

[WilliamGLX81]

All right, no need for a fight.


The bottom line is that the cable I got is NOT lubed, so what do I use to lubricate it? I have moly lithium heavy duty bearing grease. Fresh out of white lithium and graphite.

 

[WilliamGLX81]

Ok, checked the plugs.

Numbering from left leg = #1
#1: a little sooty, looked about normal.
#2/#3: No deposits on the arm, insulator was light tan.
#4: Tan/white deposits on the arm, insulator light tan.

Sounds like really lean on #4, #1 maybe rich, and the others, about right?

The deposits on #4's arm looked like http://www.carbasics.co.uk/spark_plug_inspection_1.jpg It's listed as a healthy plug.

I'm running premium, this tank, as I wasn't sure how long it might be sitting. I'll go back to 87 ASAP.

 

[WilliamGLX81]

Enriched #4 to 3 full turns out.

I watched the filter, and whilst revving at 3K I could see air bubbles form near its intake... It's translucent plastic. It wasn't a very stable 3K either, it varied a little, with a hint of a miss now and then. Unless I'm ignorant, it should be smooth as can be.

I'd like to get the valves adjusted and get the carbs balanced. I have some valve noise, but it's not tiktiktiktik like a car's valves.

It's windy, stormy, and not raining now, but has been looking like it's about to all day. Given the weather, these minor issues, and the wicked allergies I have, No rides today :/

Solutions?
What kind of cable lube?
Get new fuel filter?

I'll probably take it by the place near me where I got the tires done. They're honest, and will probably give me some free advice.


-William

 

[almarconi]

The bottom line is that the cable I got is NOT lubed, so what do I use to lubricate it?

I use motor oil.

 

[almarconi]

May I make a suggestion?

Adjust your valves BEFORE doing the carburetors. Once your valves are set, set your idle mixture and then vacuum sync the carburetors.

 

[Turtleface]

This fuel filter is a paper media filter made for automotive use. I believe it's for carb'ed vehicles. Think a restriction would cause that kind of problem? It doesn't complain at all when I gwonch on it in first and second.
William

Have you tried running without the fuel filter? Automotive filters are designed to be used with a fair amount of pressure. Even the lowliest of engine driven mechanical automotive fuel pumps puts out a LOT more pressure than a gravity feed motorcycle system. The air bubbles you mentioned aren't very encouraging either. Maybe a loose connection that's allowing air in, but not loose enough to allow fluid to dribble. Or maybe an old hose that's decomposed enough to become air permeable?

 

[gggGary]

Lots O good advice, just hammering on what has already been suggested. Adjust valves, synch carbs, remove the extra filter. Light grease on the cable not the heavy wheel bearing stuff especially if it gets cold where you are. a $2.00 can of spray lithium grease works well for tach speedo clutch choke, any and all cables. Keep telling us how it's going.

 

[WilliamGLX81]

Thanks ggGary. Concise is nice.

White lithium grease for the cables, I'll replace the filter with a gravity feed one. The one I got was only temporary anyway.

Do you all think valve adjustment and carb sync would explain the running issues?

Anyway, now I just have to wait and see what changes when I do something.

I'll post back.

PS the fuel line is all new.
William

 

[gggGary]

just my 2 cents but when tracking troubles remove anything that wasn't stock on the bike. Try it without the "extra" fuel filter then if it still leans out you know "that" wasn't it. I don't think anyone mentioned blocked gas tank vent which is a possibility in this situation also. Best O luck to you!