Flat battery - why?

[KiwiGS]

Yep, I agree. Believe me, if you were closer, many of us would drive by just to help you find the solution once and for all!

- JC

I'm travelling up to Auckland to meet Psyguy with a group of friends at the end of the month. If this problem still persists, i'll wrench that old switch out and have it replaced.[/QUOTE]
What make you think the problem is in the light circuit?

 

[Colin Green]

Well! Just because I have no clue at all, but have a switch and Psyguy did show me that his self cancel switch wasn't.... because it physically didn't partially return once thumbed across... (big breath) I'ma gonna bet it's the flogged out old switch.

Best Mr Psyguy contact me & call by to pick up my spare, if he is over this way in his travels tomorrow

 

[49er]

I'm travelling up to Auckland to meet Psyguy with a group of friends at the end of the month. If this problem still persists, i'll wrench that old switch out and have it replaced.

What make you think the problem is in the light circuit?[/QUOTE]

I'm no sparks guru, just an educated guess, from years of trouble shooting! If it were mine and it was dodgy, I would have replaced it by now.

 

[Guest]

Recap and update

Recap and update

existing findings:

• all new leads and connections from the alternator the the RR to the battery (no significant voltage drop at the RR leads)
• stator puts out 80V+ on all three phases
• charging with the headlight OFF = 14.8V
• charging with the headlight ON = under 13V and falling - slowly draining the battery
• voltage drop at the headlight bulb socket = 1.5V

new data:

• voltage drop at the headlight circuit ground wire = 0.0V
• with the headlight temporarily connected directly to the battery the charging is under 13V and dropping

so, a faulty RR, right?


.

 

[Matchless]

This still seems like you have lost one phase and as your tests show the stator putting out a good AC voltage on all 3 phases then the R/R would be my next suspect, one phase is most likely faulty in the R/R. (see post #31)

 

[Guest]

thanks guys!
matchless, some good diagnosis from you quite early in this thread!


i still have a couple of questions:

You should also continue to fix up the headlight circuit due to the voltage drop.

the headlight circuit goes through 8 connections before it gets to the bulb. all those connections have been cleaned (and some replaced) including those in the left- and right- handlebar swithches, so i guess the only other thing i could do is to get both NEW switches.

You can either get with Duaneage or look for a FET based r/r.

what's a FET based RR?

and before i can get a replacement RR, is it ok to ride (with the headlight off) with a faulty RR, is it posibly going to damage the stator or anything else??

 

[duaneage]

I wouldn't run a bike with any known problem, especially electrical, since more damage can result. Plus if something goes wrong in traffic in front of a large truck you could end up as a hood ornament.

make sure your ride is 100 percent before venturing out. People are crazy and the roads are dangerous enough.

 

[Guest]

i've just bought the RR from duaneage (thanks!) and will let you know how i go when i get it and install it.

i'll move the voltage drop at the headlight topic into another thread.

thanks for the help guys!

 

[Guest]

Update

Update

i've just bought the RR from duaneage (thanks!) and will let you know how i go when i get it and install it.

ok, update...


i connected the new (used) RR i got from duaneage but the problem remains the same:

• charging OK with no load (14.5V)
• charging NOT OK when the headlight is ON (or when i connect a 55W light bulb directly to the battery) - the voltage starts slowly dropping

• all relevant connections are NEW spade connectors
• RR connected directly to the battery
• stator puts out 85+V at 5000rpm
• all 3 stator phases go directly to the RR
• i would assume that the RR is good but wouldn't mind testing it while hooked off if there is a way to do that?
• the system has been tested with the engine just warmed up from cold as well as during a few hours of riding and the results are the same

could this be a problem with the battery?? the battery is new-ish but it was on a cheap side chinese product...

any thoughts?

 

[Guest]

Any way of checking stator for shorts?

 

[Guest]

Any way of checking stator for shorts?

well, dunno, it charges ok over a prolonged period of time (during riding) as long as the headlight is off. i would assume that any problems with the stator would be exposed during such testing?

 

[pontiacstogo]

could this be a problem with the battery?? the battery is new but it was a cheap chinese product...


any thoughts?

The first step in ANY charging system diagnosis should be a known good battery. Now that you've come this far, bite the bullet and buy a good AGM battery. I'd normally recommend Batterymart's 'Big Crank' series but I'm not sure what your options are for batteries in the land of the long white cloud.

 

[duaneage]

When I see the words "cheap chinese" along with "battery" I envision a 20 dollar item made from recycled lead. Spend a little more and get a maintenance free battery, they have 3 year warranties.

 

[Guest]

before i discard a new battery that cost $90... i'd like to check if it is good as it does come with a 1yr warranty.

what would be the way to check if the battery is ok?

 

[bonanzadave]

before i discard a new battery that cost $90

I dont know what $90 Kiwi dollars equate to but my battery cost $30 us and has been a solid 14.5vdc all summer long. Duane equipped RR.

 

[Guest]

The first step in ANY charging system diagnosis should be a known good battery.

yup, i know, that's what i started with a few months ago, but now running out of ideas on what might be wrong so thought may be a problem with the battery that doesn't show when just checking the voltage (as the voltage stays at 13.5V when battery is fully charged)

not keen on spending money randomly changing parts before i can confirm they are no good

 

[Guest]

I dont know what $90 Kiwi dollars equate to

aprox US$55

 

[KiwiGS]

A quick test, is to check the specific gravity of the cells. Use a hydrometer. Should be between 1.24 and 1.65. They are pretty cheap at supercheap or the like.
Or you could take the battery to an autosparky they should be able to check the specific gravity and give it a load test as well.
Cheers

 

[Steve]

Not sure it is, but one thing is for certain. When he turns on the headlight switch, the charging situation is bad. Turns it off, the situation is good.

Either the draw is too much as Jim speculated and is a definite possibility, or the circuit is doing something bad.

Possibilities right now (tell me if I missed one)

1. Bad r/r

2. Bad main chassis ground

3. Bad r/r ground or r/r positive (Jim was testing this part)

4. Bad stator to r/r connectors (Jim was testing this part, and Psyguy eliminated the headlight circuit from the r/r loop, which helps)

5. Bad headlight switch (needs cleaned, etc- high resistance)

6. Bad high/low beam switch (see headlight switch)

7. Bad harness or connectors for the headlight (partially indicated by >10% voltage drop)

8. Bad headlight circuit ground (causes high resistance and too high load)

9. Bad bulb or socket (?? not sure about this one, but he's checking just about everything else ??)

10. Anyone have something to add here?


These aren't in any particular order and some have been at least partially tested.

- JC

I have only started reading this since post #81, so I'm sure I have missed a lot, but I do have a couple of questions.
Are all three stator leads directly connected to the r/r?
If not, I would suspect that lead that goes up to the headlight switch or a dead leg in the stator.
I presume that output checks were made on the stator?

I saw some mention of repairing/replacing the headlight switch, but was not sure if it was to repair the headlight connection or the stator wire connection.

.

 

[Guest]

steve, post #107 is the current situation. thanks