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frozen exhaust bolts

  • Thread starter Thread starter drewandkellie
  • Start date Start date
That was no beating, that was a chiding. Besides, you had it coming...8-[

Glad you worked it out.
 
I love my GS bike but I can't help but think that Suzuki screwed up when they designed the head to take bolts to hold the exhaust pipes on. Has anyone had luck with switching the bolts over to studs so the darn things don't snap off in the head?
 
Then you are allowed to experience the joy of removing broken studs from the head after the nuts "weld" themselves to the studs and refuse to turn. There is no perfect solution to this dilemma. The best that you can do is ANTI-SEIZE! ANTI-SEIZE! ANTI-SEIZE!
Dissimilar metals and heat/moisture create an environment that simply is not good for threaded fasteners. No way around it.
 
The PO of my bike was kind enough to offer an exhaust system with both studs and bolts when I got the bike. I went 2 for 4 removing the bolts and 4 for 4 removing the studs. When I rebuild the head I will have all studs.

All eight got three days of PB and I only had trouble with one stud. To remove that nut, I very carefully cut across the side of the nut with a cut-off wheel (stop before you make it to the threads), then I gave it a shot of torch; and off it came.

On the other hand, the bolts forced me to launch a blitzkrieg of F-bombs that the neighbors will not soon forget. Since I was already resigned replace any broken bolts with studs, I did give up sooner than most and just cranked away when I felt the bolt begin to twist.
​
 
When rebuilding an old 450 I bought a head off ebay for the cams. When it arrived I was very pleased to find all the internal components looked almost like new; cams and shim buckets per pristine (unlike my own bikes parts that were scuffed and worn). I was going to transplant the entire head onto my bike until I noticed that the exhaust port bolt holes were tore to crap on one cylinder. The bolts obviously broke off and some bone head drilled them out off center distroying the head. :( :( The previous owner said they didn't know anthing about this. At any rate, I'm no fan of bolts in an application like this.
 
three words: drill and tap

if you overdrill you can use the thread inserts (props to the ones from autozone!). Maybe this is better for corrosion because the new interface is steel-steel??

Try not to F*** up the angle too bad, or you'll have a bigger headache on your hands.
 
Here's my concern with drilling out the broken bolt(s):

I have the worst track record for trying to drill in the middle of a bolt. First, the bolt is never broken flat, so I have a sloped surface to begin with. Next, I can't seem to centerpunch deep enough to start the drill in the center of the bolt. Is there any good method to get the drill started in the center? Perhaps I should try with a 3/64"(needle) bit to start, then work up slowly to just slightly undersized?
 
Drill and tap

Drill and tap

When drilling always start with a small pilot hole first then step up your sizes.No one can get a punch pefectly centered ,but what you can do is when you start with the small drill bit .you can actually angle the bit slightly the adjust the center a coulple of mm .
 
Grind them flat first...

Grind them flat first...

GS850_Coug said:
Here's my concern with drilling out the broken bolt(s):

I have the worst track record for trying to drill in the middle of a bolt. First, the bolt is never broken flat, so I have a sloped surface to begin with. Next, I can't seem to centerpunch deep enough to start the drill in the center of the bolt. Is there any good method to get the drill started in the center? Perhaps I should try with a 3/64"(needle) bit to start, then work up slowly to just slightly undersized?
Click to expand...
Keep centerpunching until you are happy with it.
Small bits and work your way up. Use left hand drill bits if you can find them, if the stick in the hole they sometimes spin the bolt out. Go slow and keep the hole straight, if you can get your eye in the right place it helps.
 
If the broken end isn't flush or below the surface, take a small grinder to the end and put as flat a surface on it as you can, to remove the sloping effect. If it is flush or below the surface already, use a dremel and a small grinding tip and use that to start a small indentation in the center of the bolt/stud. Then try to center punch and drill.
The technique of tilting the drill a tiny bit mentioned above, does work well if you start as soon as the bit begins to penetrate. Once the drill has gone in even a tiny bit, leaning it will accomplish nothing but breaking the bit. I do this daily removing rivets from aircraft skins. Admitted, aluminum rivets drill super easily, but an off center drill leaves a figure eight shaped hole no matter the material being drilled. As soon as it begins to make an indentation, lean the back of the drill in the opposite direction and allow the drill tip to work it's way sideways into the center. You may have to change direction slightly to get it exactly where you want, but it can be done. The next step is to throw away your bolt extractors!!!
I personally feel that a bolt/stud that has broken, is very rarely going to yield to any sort of extraction method, so I simply continue drilling with stepped up drill bits until I've removed enough material that I can begin to clean out the threads with a threading tap. If I do end up slightly off-center, I clean out the remainder of the damaged threads, overdrill and come back to original size with heli-coil? inserts. That does improve the situation all-around anyway, since heli-coil inserts are stainless and will actually provide a stronger grip than a bolt/stud in cast aluminum. I put my bolts or studs in with anti-seize. Always. ALWAYS.
 
I just wanted to add something about penetrating sprays. I have used many different kinds including PB Blaster, Conklin Rustbomb, Hydrotex, etc. The best I have found so far that doesn't eat up plastic or other materials has been some stuff made by Seafoam. I have used this for several years and it has never let me down.
 
brs127s said:
I just wanted to add something about penetrating sprays. I have used many different kinds including PB Blaster, Conklin Rustbomb, Hydrotex, etc. The best I have found so far that doesn't eat up plastic or other materials has been some stuff made by Seafoam. I have used this for several years and it has never let me down.
Click to expand...

That would be Sea Foam "Deep Creep" .

PB Blaster is rated 'bout the same, as is Airkroil. The key is patience and hitting the stuck fastener with a drift or if accessible a hammer to set up a vibration that breaks the electrochemical/mechanical bond between disimilar metals. You can remove those old bolts. If you're a professional you don't have time and must resort to drilling and helicoils or other inserts. If you're a shade tree kinda guy like me and you've got the patience to work with a stuck fastener for a week or two you can get it out. That is no exaggeration, a week or two. But you won't have to pull a head or jerk an engine out of the frame and then pay a guy to burn a snapped bolt with an EZ Out snapped off in it, and then a machinist to drill and tap the remaining metal.

I learned this the hard way. My Dad showed me the right way to do it when replacing the window wiper motor on an old Plymouth Fury. After about 5 days or so we busted the bolts loose. Used Liquid Wrench, which is very much inferior compared to PB, Deep Creep, Kroil which are more modern products, hell, they weren't around back then. Don't give up until you've given it at least a week.

Wingnut, a member here and an A&P mechanic, stresssed to me the importance of hitting the stuck fastener with a hammer. The shock and resulting vibration will help dislodge the bond that forms because of disimilar metals.
 
Jim is right, no matter what kind of penetrate I have used, I always soaked the frozen bolt, fastener, etc. twice a day for a week, and then used an impact driver to loosen it. I have a buddy that is a mechanic, and he always told me that a impact driver is a motorcyclist's best friend, if they work on their own stuff.
 
I though i'd put my 2 cents in even if it isn't worth 2 cents. On any car i've ever done exhaust work on I have always replaced the regular steel nuts with brass nuts. They never rust and I have never had a problem taking them off when needed. Just thought someone would like to know.
 
One thing that I've never seen suggested in these posts (they are very frequent, after all), is to run the bike up to normal operating temperature before attempting to remove the bolts. I've never run into a problem with stuck bolts, yet, but this would seem the easiest way to expand the engine metal over the bolt metal. I would think that doing this would help somewhat, whether it be squirting some PB onto the bolts after the engine has cooled somewhat, or removing them outright.

Another suggestion, not mentioned in this thread, would be to attempt to tighten the bolts before loosening them. Again, a warm engine could help greatly.

My .02.

Brad bt
 
bradleymaynar said:
Another suggestion, not mentioned in this thread, would be to attempt to tighten the bolts before loosening them. Again, a warm engine could help greatly.

My .02.

Brad bt
Click to expand...

GREAT SUGGESTION Brad!

I've found that this works very well. All you need to do is to get the bolt/nut to move just a fraction of a mm. After that, it is just a matter of patience and time and all things will come loose.
 
I use about a pound of antisieze on these bolts, and I crack them loose and retighten once or twice a year just in case they had any ideas about sticking. No problems so far.

I do use the stainless steel allen head bolts, since regular steel bolts quickly corrode into useless lumps in the heat.
 
bwringer said:
I use about a pound of antisieze on these bolts, and I crack them loose and retighten once or twice a year just in case they had any ideas about sticking. No problems so far.

I do use the stainless steel allen head bolts, since regular steel bolts quickly corrode into useless lumps in the heat.
Click to expand...

Double up and ditto on the antisieze!~ Great stuff!!!!
 
Has anyone had luck with switching the bolts over to studs so the darn things don't snap off in the head?
Click to expand...

I've changed all my bikes from bolts to studs, to avoid seizure problems, but also because the aluminium threads in the head are prone to stripping after decades of PO's.

I second the suggestion about using brass nuts on the studs, if the latter are plain steel. Rust-induced seizure (due to the extreme heat and exposure to the weather) isn't a problem.

If you use stainless studs, then use stainless nuts -- no metallurgical reaction is going to happen.
 
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