Fuel Injection Conversion?Possible?

[BurntKittyForge]

Probably a stupid question(?) and Hopefully it hasn't been discussed a bunch (didn't find topic search)

But I JUST HAVE TO Know :

Wondering whether it's possible (within reason) to convert from carburetor to use say a GSXR "throttle body" fuel injection.

This would be for example a GSX1100 or GS1000 to say a 2006 or '07 GSXR 1000 throttle body.
Since the GSXR is more H.P. it seems like ...
Also Seems like the intake boots could be modified/fabricated easily probably.

But I don't know anything about the electronic controls involved(???)...
Besides ease of maintanence (sp.?) I wonder how it'd affect performance too(?).

I know my carb. does some interesting stuff , it's almost like it's "congested" (like a person) after sitting just a week or so, then it'll "cough" a little and "spit it out" ,and some other stuff I doubt injection would do.

(Yes, I keep seeing a particular ad and soon it'll be gone. Hence haven't researched it at elsewhere. Wondering for future reference as well too though).

Thanks very much for feedback/ info/ thoughts...

 

[TiiMuch]

I met a guy in Vancouver who built wicked fast turbo GS's.
They were all FI.
I asked him how difficult it was. He said easy.
-just needed throttle bodies that would fit the spacing on the intake rubber boots.
-there is a compact, programmable FI controller/ignition module out of a 1991 Ford Escort that he used to control it.
-external MSD electric fuel pump.

 

[silverhelme]

A quick search found this one http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...e-and-fuel-injection&highlight=fuel+injection which I followed for a while, as while as several other discussions. None of them are particularly cheap and all require good electrical and mechanical fab skills.

 

[JTGS850GL]

A quick search found this one which I followed for a while, as while as several other discussions. None of them are particularly cheap and all require good electrical and mechanical fab skills.

No link to what you were following.

 

[silverhelme]

Already fixed.

 

[geol]

I know little about FI but Kawasaki used FI in 1980 on a KZ1000. These throttle bodies have the same spacing as on a GS I think. Many folks who own these bikes get rid of the FI as the electronics are old and they can't buy parts but the throttle bodies go up for sale regularly if you look around. The electronics? Dunno but if you think you want to do this type thing, you had best be able to fab or adapt an existing set of electronic components.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

The early GPz1100s were FI, too, but most people ditched the FI for carbs because carbs were more tunable and made more power. These bikes don't have computers, and the FI systems tend to be a bit Jurassic accordingly. Carbs are great if set up well.

 

[JTGS850GL]

Programmable fuel injection has removed all obstacles from the older FI systems. Once the concepts are understood, programmable FI is much easier to tune and no need to tare down and replace jets. I've got a 1972 Datsun turbo 240Z that uses programmable FI. With the help of a dyno and a WB O2 sensor I was able to get her tuned up in less then an hour and a half. I think a Suzi using FI would be a sweet and unique ride.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

Why someone would waste the time and money to add the complexity of FI to a dinosaur bike eludes me-unless it is a turbo or other forced induction machine, or some special build that requires it for atmospheric conditions.

 

[JTGS850GL]

Why someone would waste the time and money to add the complexity of FI to a dinosaur bike eludes me-unless it is a turbo or other forced induction machine, or some special build that requires it for atmospheric conditions.

Because it's fun to experiment with. FI is not as complex as you may think. Just a couple of sensors, a HP pump, injectors and an ECU. If you're into it, it can be a blast to play with. Like I said... There's the uniqueness as well. Plus there's no carb rebuilds in your future. FI is MUCH more tolerant of stale fuel and ethanol.

Besides, you could argue: "why own a 30+ year old bike in the first place".

 

[Guest]

Carbs are great if set up well.

FI is vastly superior to carbs if set up well and is virtually maintenance free.

Why someone would waste the time and money to add the complexity of FI to a dinosaur bike eludes me-unless it is a turbo or other forced induction machine, or some special build that requires it for atmospheric conditions.

EFI is no more complex than learning to deal with jetting if you are modding your bike and need to deviate from stock settings. It adds a fuel pump and controller to the bike, which is really no more significant than the people adding relays to power their ignition or headlight.

I think this is a generational thing as much as anything. People who grew up in the 70's and early 80's (myself included) learned to deal with carbs because that is what we had. EFI seems dark and mysterious to us. Younger riders who grew up in the late 80's and 90's have never known life without computers, video games or the internet. Using electronics to manipulate and control their world is very natural to them. EFI is so much better than carbs that I find it more amazing that someone hasn't come up with a reasonably priced kit to convert these dinosaur bikes than people resisting the improvement. If there was an easy to add kit it would be the end of the endless string of jetting/carb cleaning/tuning threads that form a whole sub-forum on their own here.


Mark

 

[GS1150Pilot]

FI is vastly superior to carbs if set up well and is virtually maintenance free.




EFI is no more complex than learning to deal with jetting if you are modding your bike and need to deviate from stock settings. It adds a fuel pump and controller to the bike, which is really no more significant than the people adding relays to power their ignition or headlight.

I think this is a generational thing as much as anything. People who grew up in the 70's and early 80's (myself included) learned to deal with carbs because that is what we had. EFI seems dark and mysterious to us. Younger riders who grew up in the late 80's and 90's have never known life without computers, video games or the internet. Using electronics to manipulate and control their world is very natural to them. EFI is so much better than carbs that I find it more amazing that someone hasn't come up with a reasonably priced kit to convert these dinosaur bikes than people resisting the improvement. If there was an easy to add kit it would be the end of the endless string of jetting/carb cleaning/tuning threads that form a whole sub-forum on their own here.


Mark

Disagree. Cost of/time of building/adapting and setting up FI on a bike that was not designed for it outweighs potential gains in power for anything less than a racebike or extremely high powered custom. Carbs for the GS series are diverse, easily modified and offer 90% of the power any FI system will in such applications.

 

[JTGS850GL]

Disagree. Cost of/time of building/adapting and setting up FI on a bike that was not designed for it outweighs potential gains in power for anything less than a racebike or extremely high powered custom. Carbs for the GS series are diverse, easily modified and offer 90% of the power any FI system will in such applications.

Your thinking in such a limited way. Think of the fun of experimenting without the risk of screwing up a much more expensive bike. It's not the cost benefit as much as the experience. I've experimented with PFI for years and always get a rush the first time a new beast fires up. Then again it may just be my personality. I spent a career in electronics design. The idea of modernizing antiquated systems just seems normal.

 

[bobgroger]

Have a look at http://megasquirt.info/ A lot of help there...

 

[Big T]

I remember a guy doing a Megasquirt FI conversion a few years back, I think his project thread went dead after about a year and it wasn't finished

 

[BurntKittyForge]

I remember a guy doing a Megasquirt FI conversion a few years back, I think his project thread went dead after about a year and it wasn't finished

Was it this one maybe? (Linked in reply)

A quick search found this one http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...e-and-fuel-injection&highlight=fuel+injection which I followed for a while, as while as several other discussions. None of them are particularly cheap and all require good electrical and mechanical fab skills.

The reply 2 was hopeful. But I spent most of eve. studying the link and side links. Like this one:
http://www.puresimplicity.net/~hemi/vehicles/gs-efi.html (Mentions "checked with The GS Resources..." or such a few times.

I posted a bit in haste after I've had my eyes on a "GSXR 1000 throttle body" ad...sometimes I have to validate whether my daydreams are viable. I had my two children to watch today. Funny I typed "But I don't know about electronics of it, I really barely know/knew crap about it...

The member GS 1000 shopper , sheesh! had a GSX1100G bike (same as mine) , I bookmarked his that thread (In past) But about the opposite type builder as myself.
"Gear-shift inicator" "bought for fairing" endless pages of stuff I'd never attempt that didn't work once I figure it out, then in the end the bike blew up WTF? After like 50 pages of bolt on electronic BS!

So I bookmark this one because I was thinking "WOW, ATLEAST I get info on Fuel pumps, COOL!"
NOPE! None of those work. So after designing a radio shack and figuring out all it's working it's all gibberish again!

"Intake Boots" I think I could've stacked some aluminum or steel plates together and made some friggin' boots by the time I read 1/4 of ...

I remember Harley Davidson had gone to stock FI, but the Carbureted version cost less (by a few hundred, maybe 4(?)) and with S&S carb the FI was well below the H.P. gain at that time ...

I was daydreaming of a bolt on modern GSXR type add-on.(with maybe a electronic add-on like one LOL) It'd be more versatile because of programming, and the carb could still be put back (LOL "slapped on")and used configured however thus MORE versatile was idea (OOps!)

I picked up a bunch of links for fuel pump info (my bike has none, PO removed) ...99% useless rambling , but that 1% of couple thousand will probably be good!

Thanks very much for all the replies so far, I was/am planning a carburetor rebuild for winter time. Doubt I'll attempt a FI conversion since the unfinished ones were pricey, many extra parts (besides throttle body...

 

[Nessism]

The member GS 1000 shopper , sheesh! had a GSX1100G bike (same as mine) , I bookmarked his that thread (In past) But about the opposite type builder as myself.
"Gear-shift inicator" "bought for fairing" endless pages of stuff I'd never attempt that didn't work once I figure it out, then in the end the bike blew up WTF? After like 50 pages of bolt on electronic BS!

So I bookmark this one because I was thinking "WOW, ATLEAST I get info on Fuel pumps, COOL!"
NOPE! None of those work. So after designing a radio shack and figuring out all it's working it's all gibberish again!

Thanks for reminding me about GS1000G Shopper's EFI thread. I just bumped it back up for encouragement! I applaud his energy and commitment.

You say that such a build is BS and different from yours. You got a link to a build so we can see what kind of work you do? Can't wait for the opportunity to critique.

 

[GS1150Pilot]

Your thinking in such a limited way. Think of the fun of experimenting without the risk of screwing up a much more expensive bike. It's not the cost benefit as much as the experience. I've experimented with PFI for years and always get a rush the first time a new beast fires up. Then again it may just be my personality. I spent a career in electronics design. The idea of modernizing antiquated systems just seems normal.

I'm thinking in a pragmatic way, that's all. The Mikunis I have on my GS are more than adequate for the refinement in fueling it requires. I work with a guy who has a CX500 Turbo and a C-14, both of which are injected. The Honda has had all manner of electronic and FI woes over the past few years due to its age and overcomplicated nature. The Kawasaki runs flawlessly. I suppose it comes down to this: There is a purity and joy in the simplicity and straightforward nature of our old GS's. If we want to complicate that just for the hell of it, I guess that means we are pining for newer machines. I know there are lots of folks who have adapted FI to VW Beetles, too, but there's something raw and real about Dellortos or Webers on a hot 1835. Beyond which the cost of doing this, set against the minor gain, seems silly.

 

[Hayabuser]

I'd love to find an inexpensive "bolt on" EFI system for these old bikes... I've had five GS1100-based bikes (two Katanas, three "e" models) over the years and only two of them fueled properly. At this point, I don't really want to own another one unless it's already perfectly sorted, or has been modernized for reliability... or turbo'd.

The o/p brings up an interesting idea of using an existing FI system off of another bike which could work. The later GSXR models wouldn't be ideal since Suzuki moved the cam chain from the center of the engine to the end so the throttle body spacing would be off. The injected Bandit 1250 continued with an evolution of the old Gixxer 1100 engine which, IIRC, still had the cam chain centrally located. That would be a good place to start, if so.

Or just bolt on a turbo with a single OEM Harley-Davidson Kielin carb... no balance/sync worries with only one carb!

 

[Guest]

Disagree. Cost of/time of building/adapting and setting up FI on a bike that was not designed for it outweighs potential gains in power for anything less than a racebike or extremely high powered custom. Carbs for the GS series are diverse, easily modified and offer 90% of the power any FI system will in such applications.

More power is at the bottom of my list why EFI is better. It is easier to tune, it adjusts automatically for atmospheric changes, it is virtually maintenance free and can offer perfect running at all throttle positions/RPM/road speeds along with improved mileage. I am not an electronics guy and am not capable of adapting an EFI system to my 1100E without a huge amount of effort so I stick with my carbs. If there was an EFI kit for the GS similar to the kits available for the small block Chev motor then I would be tempted to change out the carbs.


Mark