Fuse blowing during pre-ignition

[fritalian]

Hello GSR members.
Since my previous thread http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=211792
the short has become progessively worse to the point where the main fuse shorts out every time I pull the clutch in to start the engine. I was wondering if anyone knows if there is an electrical connection along or near the clutch cable that might be causing this? I haven't puled the tank off yet but I intend to this when the temperature reaches at least -10C or warmer. Freaking freezing here right now. Can anyone offer some suggestions of where to start? Why might the action of pulling the clutch in cause a short? Is there a switch there somewhere that allows for ignition?
Anyway, any advice would be helpful.
Many thanks.

 

[tkent02]

There is a Clutch Danger Switch the later GSes. Most of us bypass it anyway. If you bypass it your short will probably be a full time short, which should make it easier to find.

 

[fritalian]

There is a Clutch Danger Switch the later GSes. Most of us bypass it anyway. If you bypass it your short will probably be a full time short, which should make it easier to find.

Forgive me but what on earth is a "full time short?" and why would it be easier to find?

 

[tkent02]

Shorted all the time, instead of only when you pull the lever. Easier to find, because it's always there until you find it.

Got a multimeter and a wiring diagram??

 

[tom203]

Try something simple- remove the 10 amp ignition fuse. Now attempt to start (it won't ) but does main fuse still blow when you pull in clutch??

 

[fritalian]

Shorted all the time, instead of only when you pull the lever. Easier to find, because it's always there until you find it.

Got a multimeter and a wiring diagram??

Ok, I get it. Yes I have the Claymer manual and multimeter.

 

[fritalian]

Try something simple- remove the 10 amp ignition fuse. Now attempt to start (it won't ) but does main fuse still blow when you pull in clutch??

Alright, I'll give this a go. Thanks. What happens in either scenario?

 

[trippivot]

process to locate a short circuit.

process to locate a short circuit.

use a test light in place of the fuse that is always blowing. this is when you start to inspect the wires on your bike -- I'd start at the starter button - it is positive and will cause a problem when shorted before the solenoid.

When the test light is glowing full blast - like if you use It directly on the battery posts - that is when you are having a short circuit. =bad

if you have no light at all -- that is also BAD and you have not found the problem.=bad

when the test light is very dim - that is what it looks like when the circuit is normal...

This is a tedious process but leave no wire unchecked -- the switch housing pinching wires // where the harness goes into the headlight bucket// where the wires go under the fuel tank around the neck -- etc....

bright - bad -// off - bad // dim GOOD remember this process and be a electrical hero.

 

[Killer2600]

use a test light in place of the fuse that is always blowing.....

Only works with old style incandescent test lights, doesn't work with the new LED test lights.

 

[Redman]

.
.
..

Fri,

Anything further to report?

Fuse blowing when you pull in the clutch seems strange, because the clutch swtich will not have any power on it untill you also hit the starter button.
Maybe pulling in the clutch moves some wire bundle around.

Or... maybe... the fuse is blowing as soon as you turn on the key.
If so, try disconnecting the R/R, and see how it goes (you can start and run bike without R/R, just will not be recharging the battery).

.

 

[fritalian]

So It's spring now and I can get to work on the GS without freezing to death. Since the fuse was blowing when I pulled in the clutch cable, I checked it first. The housing looks to be in perfect condition. I've taken the tank off and visually inspected all wiring bundles, looking for fraying or wear of any kind. I've taken off the tie-wraps in case they were wearing through the wiring somewhere and inspected the wires in each of these locations.
The magnitude of this task is overwhelming me a little because I have limited experience with anything mechanical, and no experience with the GS.
I'm hoping some of the more experienced GSR members can steer me in the most logical direction so that I can isolate the problem. What should I test first and in which order? Redman suggested disconnecting the RR, should I start there? Tom203 mentioned removing the 10A ignition fuse to verify if the main blows when pulling in the clutch.
Just hoping for some more feedback so that I can find the source of the problem.
Thanks.

 

[Redman]

...
... Redman suggested disconnecting the RR, ......

only if the problem is the main fuse blows as soon as turn on the key.


.

 

[A-train]

Sounds like your clutch switch isn't the main issue, but mine was nothing but trouble on my '81 550L. Easy bypass, located in headlamp enclosure...

Also, a bad RR on my 1100 was causing a main fuse blow, intermittently. At least I think it was - replaced the RR and fuse blow went away.

Good luck!

 

[fritalian]

only if the problem is the main fuse blows as soon as turn on the key.


.

In the fall, I could turn the key and the electrics remained on. The moment I pulled the clutch lever in... "click!". The main fuse was blown. This happened 3 times in a row. Haven't had a battery in since October.

 

[Redman]

In the fall, I could turn the key and the electrics remained on. The moment I pulled the clutch lever in... "click!". The main fuse was blown. This happened 3 times in a row. Haven't had a battery in since October.

Then no need to suspect the R/R.

Nor would I suspect the switch on the clutch(the switch on clutch that is in the starter button - solenoid circuit) , because that is not at all powered until also push the starter button.

I would suspect that when pulling the clutch, that movement of the clutch cable is also moving some wiring harness somewhere. So follow the clutch cable and see what wiring harness is nearby. Try wiggling and the wiring harness and see if that blows fuse.

.

 

[fritalian]

Thanks Redman.
I am picking up a new battery and a couple of packages of 10A fuses tonight and will begin following advice, starting with yours.
I appreciate your insight. Can't wait to get back on the road.

 

[Redman]

.....I am picking up .. a couple of packages of 10A fuses tonight...

Ah
... an 83
... an 83 550ES
Ah.... that have a fuse block with 4 (or 5) fuses... right?
The Ignition and the Signal and the Head fuses (and the AUX if have that) should be 10 amp fuses.
But the Main (that you say keeps blowing) should be a 15 amp.

If you don't have a 4 or 5 fuse fuse block, but just one fuse in a inline fuse holder, that should be 15.
(but if you only had the one fuse probably would not be calling it "the main fuse", you would probably just call it "the fuse")

If you have a 10 amp in the Main, I doubt that is THE reason it is blowing when you pull in the clutch, but it should be a 15.
(although maybe good is a 10 while doing all this shorting out -- a little less hardship on the wiring. Maybe keep using 10 in Main while troubleshooting.)



Again, When you pull in the clutch that should not energize any more wireing nor put on any more load on anything until you also push the starter button.



Another test could be: Pull out the Signal and the Head and the Igintion fuses (and Aux) and leave in only the Main fuse, and then see if the main still blows when pull in the clutch, if it does then that proves the "short" is in the Main wiring circuit and not in the clutch switch - starter button - solenoid circuit (which is on the Ignition Fuse) or any other circuit.

 

[fritalian]

You're right Redmam, it is a 15A. Don't know why I thought is was a 10, I've replaced enough of them in the pas year to know better
It is a 5 fuse block with four 10A fuses and the main 15A. Yesterday, I installed a new battery in and turned the key. No issues. When I pulled the clutch in, the familiar click and blown fuse never happened. I hit the starter and the engine turned over, no problem. So I decided to put the tank back on and try to start it. It turned over, and over, and over and over but the engine wouldn't start. Not even a sputter. Eventually, I drained the battery and had to walk away. This morning, I went back to the bike, activated the choke and pushed the starter. The engine coughed for the first time and immediately blew the 15A main fuse.
I'm wondering where to go from here. Where is this short coming from?
Should I replace the RR in order to eliminate this as a possibility?
I don't know what I should try next.
Any advice would be helpful.
Thanks.

 

[Redman]

....,
.... The engine coughed for the first time and immediately blew the 15A main fuse.
I'm wondering where to go from here. Where is this short coming from?
.....

SO now it is not blowing main fuse immeadaitaly when pull in clutch. But may blow main fuse sometime later.

Hum,
I suspect some wiring harness is worn thru soomwwehere, and the main fuse blows when something moves around and this bare spot grounds out to the frame or something, or some bare wire grounds out to a worn ground wire next to it. Maybe this happens when pull in clutch due to movement of clutch cable, but now maybe have moved something around so that doesntr happen now, but now happens with engine vibration or something.
Anyway, look around for wiring harness might rub up against the frame or something, like where the wiring harness goes around the frame neck or were goes between the coil mounts on frame.

If you suspect the R/R is bad, no, you do not need to replace it just to see if that was the problem causing the main fuse to blow.
If you suspect bad r/r is causing main fuse to blow (which it can, but usally right when turn on key), you can disconnect the r/r and every thing else will work, just will not be charging the battery and will need to use your own battery charger after a while.

Speaking of which, you said you said you cranked until battery went flat. Not good to leave it that way. Use charger to charge back up before leaving it that way.

Hard to troublshoot when the sysmptoms keep changing. But keep at it.

.

 

[fritalian]

I definitely had the battery on a charger right away after I drained it yesterday.
Just now, I brought home some fuses. I bought a 25 pack because I suspect I'll need them all before I figure out what the problem is. I would have bought more but they didn't come in a 1000 pack.
So, as I slid the fuse into its slot, it began sparking and crackling right away even before I inserted it. When I placed it inside the fusebox, it shorted immediately. I realized that when the fuse blew this morning when the engine was turning over and trying to start, I had left the key in the "on" position in the ignition. So, I turned the key to "off" and removed it before inserting another fuse. It didn't blow until I turned the key. I couldn't even get to the start button like I could yesterday. Why would the bike allow me to turn over the engine until I drained the battery yesterday, and yet today just turning the key causes a blown fuse?
I wish there was a way to isolate and test each system for a short. Anyway, I think I will start with the RR first and then go from there.