Gas in airbox

[don]

Good idea Colorodo. I see you have one of these. (Giant pic of a perty blue one as your signature.) I'd love to try that. I have 2 concerns though. One being it's gonna run crappy and WAY lean, and B, how the @#!% does that sugar coated airbox come out of the frame?

 

[Colorado85gs550]

the airbox is a piece!!!.....first thing I did was remove my tank, seat, side covers, battery, and battery box. There are a couple of bolts on the top of the box that bolts it to the frame, remove them. remove the boots between the box and the carbs....I removed them by prying them gently out from between with a crowbar after spraying them down good with WD40.

Once the boots are out, you can wiggle that thing out from the side........it takes a little persuasion!

Paul

 

[Colorado85gs550]

you can put it back in after you figure out the problem......

 

[don]

Out the left or right side? I take all that crap off every time I take the carbs off anyway. I spend 15 minuits cursing at the lack of room to get them out or spend the 10 minuits taking all that stuff out of the way and 15 seconds getting the carbs out. The 45 second gain is way better than ulsurs from getting all ****ed off. From fully assembled, (side covers and all), disassembled, then reassembled, I can do it in about 15 minuits.

PS
In your post about the gear ratios.
The bigger the big sprocket, the higher the rpm. The smaller the small sprocket the higher the rpm. Higher rpm = lower top speed but snappier till red line.

 

[Colorado85gs550]

I just went down to a 13 tooth on the front and back up to a 48t on the rear....just ordered them

if you can get the carbs out in that time.....you can get the box out in the same amount of time

just make sure after you unbolt the box you slide it forward towards the carbs and then out the side....either/or is just as hard

 

[DimitriT]

I had the carbs overflowing into the airbox on my 550 until I checked the flloat
level and adjusted them according to the manual. The problem would only happen
when I was riding up a steep hill. Just a thought.

 

[don]

Good thaught Dimitrit. Double checked that and other things. All seems to be in order. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[don]

Valve springs

Valve springs

As mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, we're going to put new intake valve springs and gaskets in it and give it a whirl. One problem, can't find valve springs anywhere. My bud works at a Suzuki dealership and he can't find any. Would anyone know where we can at least look? :-k

Thanks.

 

[don]

OK fellas. Been working on this deal for a while now. Did a valve job at a suzuki dealer, adjusted the valves, checked the valves, checked the valves, and checked the valves, put a different set of carbs on it, put the original set of carbs back on it, put the other set of carbs on it again, checked and adjusted the float hight, checked the float hight, and checked the float hight, checked the actual fuel level, checked the fuel level, and checked the fuel level, put new suzuki needle and seats in, new jets all around. Looked in the airbox with a mirror and a mini mag light. #2 is the culperit of the gas leaking out of the airbox. (remember these are those siamese carbs, two carbs in one.)

With either set of carbs on the bike, the 1&2 carb is the one that causes the overflow but only the #2 port. When I looked in the airbox at the carbs I could see the gas purculating up from between the slide needle and the main jet body, where you would expect it to come from when you're on the needles. But this was at an idle. The factory spec for the float hight is .077-.085 and the fuel level is .240-.280. I have set the floats to .930 with a fuel level of .310 and everywhere in between, it still happens. I have removed the vaccum fuel valve and the carbs don't overflow while the engine is not running.

Please help......WTF????????????

 

[MacGyver]

Hi Don,

Having recently taken apart a 1983 GS550E with issues, I can understand your frustration. I believe there is a reason those twin carbs were used for just a couple of years, they caused more problems than the money they saved.
My exploits - http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=141950

My thoughts:

Go to BassCliff's site and get the service manual if you haven't already. Check out page 4-7. The fuel is splashing up from your Needle jet according to your description. Pull the carb apart (again... likely) and check the seat of the Needle jet along with the washer and Main jet seating. Something stuck in the Main air jet could cause a higher than desired vacuum around the Jet needle and to much pure gas being drawn up. I would swap all the parts from one side of the carb (except for the Main jet - they need to stay with their respective cylinders) to the other and see if the problem follows the parts.

Also, just because you can, check your starter plungers and make sure they fall into place effortlessly - that was the main source of my issues. I did have a fuel in the air box issue for a while, but I attribute that to very dirty needle valve screens and the need for a proper cleaning, that issue is gone now.

For what it is worth, when I cleaned my carbs, all my parts were mixed up. The only parts that could have gone back into the same carb except by random chance was the 50/50 on the main jets. Swapping around some parts may reveal some tolerances that are out of whack.

Good luck! I have one minor issue with my GS550E, but I think that may be an idle mixture/pilot screw adjustment, I think I am running to lean. One of those fancy Colortune plugs would be great right about now.

 

[eddiev]

If you'r getting weak spark or none at all the fuel fill flow to the air-box.

How does that happen? I would think the unburnt mix would get pushed out the exhaust.

 

[don]

Thanks for the response and suggestions MG. I read all 6 pages of your post. I'll have to rule the choke deal out though, simply because the choke circuit outlet is behind (motor side) the throttle plates. I can see the gas comeing out of the needle hole. Also, if a needle was not seating properly, both needles would leak. They are hard against the slides. One would hold the other up. Besides, when you buy a set of jets or whatever, they don't come labeled to what cylinder they go to. You can buy just the needles and you can buy just the main jet.

I will check the air inlet to the main circuit for sure. That makes a lot of sense. But why would the same (1&2) carb do the same thing with a completely different set of carbs? Both have been dipped and ultrasonic cleaned. I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong.

 

[MacGyver]

Thanks for the response and suggestions MG. I read all 6 pages of your post. I'll have to rule the choke deal out though, simply because the choke circuit outlet is behind (motor side) the throttle plates. I can see the gas comeing out of the needle hole. Also, if a needle was not seating properly, both needles would leak. They are hard against the slides. One would hold the other up. Besides, when you buy a set of jets or whatever, they don't come labeled to what cylinder they go to. You can buy just the needles and you can buy just the main jet.

I will check the air inlet to the main circuit for sure. That makes a lot of sense. But why would the same (1&2) carb do the same thing with a completely different set of carbs? Both have been dipped and ultrasonic cleaned. I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong.

Yeah, I just threw the starter/choke out there. Yes, the needles should be all the same, the Main jets will be different - 1&4 #95, 2&3 #102.5 or outside/inside. Those were the only parts I made sure I had in the correct carb as the rest should be same.

OK, an idea here, have you checked the air box boots? If the problem does follow from set of carb to carb, it could be something as simple as part of the air box boot is completely or partially obstructing the Main air jet.

There should be a rubber spacer filling in the space in between the four air jets, there was on my two carbs. It was glued in place originally, but that had since worn out. Upon reassembly I siliconed them back in place. There are some good pictures of a disassembly of these carbs here:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3017242&pagenumber=1#post352764314
Unfortunatly these carbs had been modified and don't have the spacers shown, so don't take the configuration as OEM. I am not sure if that spacer would make a difference, but someone put it there originally for a reason.

Finally, your float breather hoses for each carb, are they resting on the top of the airbox? I saw a picture of a set of these carbs recently where the previous user had connected the two breather outlets together with a single hose, hmmmm....

Hope that helps.

 

[don]

Hello again Tim,

I looked at the photos on the link you provided but they aren't the carbs we're talking about. Anyway, airbox boots are new (beginning of last season) and when I looked in the airbox with the mirror and mini-mag, the allignment of those " shark fins" is the first thing I checked. Everything looks symetrical. Yes, I have those rubber triangles installed as well. I'm sorry for the confusion about when we were talking about the main jets. Yes, the big ones go in the middle and the small ones outside. I was including the actual needle tube, (the part the mains screw into), with the main jets as an assembly. And finally, The vent tubes are indeed 2 different tubes routed over the airbox.

I do appreciate your thoughts and help. Thank you ........a lot. Open to more of it. Like I said, I think I'm just missing something silly.

 

[cyclefvr2]

im betting its a wore out needle and seat! thats what i have been through,take a look at it ,and turn carb upside down, blow through the fuel line and see if they leak air -hopefully the problem will be solved

 

[don]

Cyclefvr, new ones installed. Review post #29. that's where I am now.

Thanks for the input though.

 

[MacGyver]

Hello again Tim,

I looked at the photos on the link you provided but they aren't the carbs we're talking about.

The author tears apart three carbs (or more, there are three pages of posts and that was just page one) in that post, the BSW30SS is the second one, about half way down page 1 of the posts. If you don't have the BSW30SS, then I likely cannot be of much more help as this is all I have experience with on my 1983 GS550E.

Were you able to do a wet check of the fuel height? I would still be tempted to swap the needle tube and perhaps the needle and slider just to verify that the problem does or does not move with those components.

It is a puzzling problem.

 

[don]

Hi Tim,

My error. Ididn't scroll down enough. Yes those are the same carbs. I think I will look into the whole what needle works best in what hole thing. Thanks again.

 

[don]

OK. Did every combination of slide and needle with main jet possible and got the same result. #'s 1 and 3 suck gas up from between the needle and main jet. What next fellas.....????? This thing is giving me fits!!!!!!!! I'll try to get some sort of video of what I'm seeing for you guys if i can. Really, it looks just like a float needle being stuck open or the float hight is too high, but it isn't. I have the float hight set 1/8 inch leaner than the lean limit and it still does it. All of the jets are still submurged in fuel, but the floats are set supre lean and still looks like the floats are overflowing the bowls, but I am 100% positive the float needles are shutting the fuel off. WTFUDGE??????????????

 

[Guest]

Your needle jets are worn out.