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GS1000 not charging..How do I fix

  • Thread starter Thread starter Newbee
  • Start date Start date
N

Newbee

Guest
Charged the battery overnight. Multimeter reads about 13.5 volts DC. Start the bike use the Multimeter and get a lower reading. The more I rev up motor the less volts DC I get sometimes down to 9 VDC. I can run on a full charge for about a week? Somehow the charging system is actually discharging my battery? Got any ideas?
 
This has been beat to death

This has been beat to death

Go look at the stator pages is the standards answer but this particular problem I don't think is addressed. You have too much resistance between the positive output of the R/R (red wire) and the positive side of the battery.

As current flows from the R/R to the battery, the current causes a voltage drop (i.e. the battery is lower than the R/R). The R/R regulates as if it's output was the battery voltage but alas it is not so your battery voltage continues to drop as the current demand increases.

This is the main reason that the Honda R/R with 6 wires is better. It senses the battery separately from the R/R output.

I'm not suggesting you avoid the stator pages, but if you temporarily run a direct line between R/R + red and the battery + you will probably find your problem fixed. If this does work you will likely find corrosion in your fuse box. Ask me how I know :(?

I have used Jasco metal etch to clean and then solder all of the joints inside the fuse box to improve conductivity.

Note: this wire should only be temporary to diagnoise your problem. The original connections between R/R and battery goes through a fuse which your added wire doesn't (unless you add one).

Posplayr
 
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Cooking with electrons

Cooking with electrons

Hi Mr. Newbee,

As Mr. tkent02 says, the Stator Papers are a great resource. And to add to Mr. posplayr's advice, I urge you to check and clean every electrical connection and ground on your bike, the entire wiring harness, from the headlight bucket to the tail light. (Be sure to disconnect the battery first.) Also, take the ground connection on your regulator/rectifier and run it directly to the negative terminal of the battery. What you want to do is eliminate corrosion and bad ground connections, both of which can cause excess resistance, heat, and voltage drops. Many times, after these procedures are completed, the charging system will function normally. If not, at least you have a good baseline from which to start troubleshooting. Check my website for the charging system information I've collected. It may help. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
I'll second that Mr. Basscliff

I'll second that Mr. Basscliff

It has been surprising to me how bad the connectors can be even when they look clean. My experience is you can have alot of resistance due to corrosion in the crimps.

However before you go tearing into the whole of the harness. The bare minimum to do is make sure that the 5 connections to and from you R/R are bullet proof (errr bullet less ??? as in spades). That means:

a.) replace the 3 bullet connectors from the three stator wires completely.
b.) replace the ground connection and add additional ground from R/R output, tied to the R/R case and to the to the battery Neg.
and finally
c.) solve the problem in the positive leg mentioned previously. This is what causes the dreaded "voltage inversion"

In your case it sounds like there is no inversion it voltage just goes down. There are some bad conenctions somewhere for sure.

Posplayr

P.S. On my GS1100ED restore, I completely replaced the harness, and came back with dielectric grease to treat all of the new connectors as a preventative against corrosion.
 
I wouldn't be so quick to say that the charging system is draining the battery. It may be doing that, but the test that you performed does not prove it. The demand on the battery goes up with the RPM's As the RPM's rise you will have increased coil output which will place a bigger deman on the battery. Enought to drop it to 9V? I don't know. Do a proper test of your system, be sure that you have a good battery. Dropping to 9V seems pretty significant. Although what you have described is not in the stator papers, it probably wouldn't hurt to go through them anyway. It will probably save you from randomly replacing parts without really being sure if the problem.
 
drhach

drhach

The demand on the battery goes up with the RPM's As the RPM's rise you will have increased coil output which will place a bigger deman on the battery. Enought to drop it to 9V? I don't know. Do a proper test of your system, be sure that you have a good battery. Dropping to 9V seems pretty significant.
Click to expand...

It is pretty clear that the charging system is NOT operating properly. In my GS750 factory manual under Electrical Equipment the Step 5 test is to measure voltage across the battery at 5K RPM.

It should be 14.0-15.5V (per the manual) :-k

9V is clearly discharging a 12V battery. Something aint right; see previous post for explaination. :cool:

Posplayr
 
Good Idea

Good Idea

I'll try and add to what is already there, that is alot less work.

It's on my plate.

Posplayr
 
I'm sure you've written enough about it already, just organize your old posts and send them to Basscliff or whoever is in charge.
 
Thanks Guys...I'm on it this weekend

Thanks Guys...I'm on it this weekend

I will start with cleaning every connector I can find and probably eliminating the bullet connectors and soldering everything together. Not of this can hurt and will give me a good baseline...
 
posplayr said:
It is pretty clear that the charging system is NOT operating properly. In my GS750 factory manual under Electrical Equipment the Step 5 test is to measure voltage across the battery at 5K RPM.

It should be 14.0-15.5V (per the manual) :-k

9V is clearly discharging a 12V battery. Something aint right; see previous post for explaination. :cool:

Posplayr
Click to expand...


I don't disagree with you. My point was that without a thorough test, you can not definitively diagnose the problem. For instance, there could be more than one problem here. Only checking the voltage across the battery is not enough to tell you the whole story. If your system is not charging AND you have a bad battery, then repairing the charging system is not going to fix the issue. I wasn't making any diagnosis whatsoever as much as I was encouraging him to do a proper test in order to properly diagnose the problem as opposed to the guess, replace, repeat method of motorcycle repair.

As a friend used to say often "you don't have time to do it right, but you have time to do it twice". Words of wisdom.
 
drhach

drhach

As a general rule, I don't disagree with through testing. :rolleyes: However, it is also a good general rule of debugging to get rid of known problems before going through exhaustive testing which will show erroneous data based on the the effects of the known problems. So if you can knock out problems quickly get them done first solve the problem and then finish with the detailed verification testing to insure you got it right.


From what Newbe said

Charged the battery overnight. Multimeter reads about 13.5 volts DC. Start the bike use the Multimeter and get a lower reading. The more I rev up motor the less volts DC I get sometimes down to 9 VDC. I can run on a full charge for about a week? Somehow the charging system is actually discharging my battery? Got any ideas?
Click to expand...

His bike cranks and will run for a week:-k, so I figure he doesn't have a battery problem. I'm assuming after his high RPM run takes the battery down to 9V it returns to something back above 12V .

newbee's conclusion is the same as mine, the charging system is taking the battery voltage down (9V) to below it's internal voltage (12.8V) and therefore it is discharging rather than being charged while revving (that is a simple fact of the measurements).

The diagnosis I gave explains this phenomenon as it is actually quite common, almost more common than overcharging. The so called "fold back voltage" phenomenon has been discussed at length on another thread here a while back. The confirmation of the diagnosis involves measuring the voltage difference between the R/R output and the battery positive. The same test is outlined in the stator pages.

If Newbee had another battery, he could swap it out to show it made no difference, but based on his comments it doesn't appear to be at issue.

BTW, that is an out there color combo on your bike. I stuck my neck out an went silver on my frame, you went alot further than that. I'm sure it starts to grow on you after a while. You have plenty of black and silver to contrast nicely.

Good Luck to Newbee, he needs to get over this problem so he start with his starter clutch issues. :o

Posplayr
 
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Thanks for the complement regarding my bike? It was a compliment right? Actually, the color didn't grow on me. I liked it instantly.

I take your point regarding the battery running the bike for a week. I considered that also. However, I know that people have a tendency to try to "shotgun" their problems. Many people post to these forums hoping to hear what they already believe to be the case rather than what they should be doing. Often, the end result is that a lot of needless time and money gets spent. Usually the time spent is more than it would have taken by just starting at the basics, even if they seem trite. I wasn't aware that there was previous thread regarding voltage loss through the charging system. It makes sense, especially if there is a short. I still think that thorough testing is the best way to go in this case. Maybe more so if grounding is an issue. That's just me though. "Free advice is worth the price" as they say.
 
It's funny because I just got back from the Zook dealer to have my brand freaking new battery tested due to the fact that I can ride the 1000 for-freaking-ever and it won't die, but if I shut the bike off, theres no juice to start it. Battery is 100% good.

Good info in here, I'm out to the garage to figure this crap out.
 
drhach

drhach

Thanks for the complement regarding my bike? It was a compliment right? Actually, the color didn't grow on me. I liked it instantly.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I came across negative, I did not mean to. For my own bike I debated doing something very close to OEM or doing certain NON OEM things like:
paint calipers Grey
paint the frame silver
the swing arm gold :eek:
Committed sacrilege by over doing the pearl on my Red GS1100ED ^o.

I had to keep telling my self even though it is not OEM, and may be a little flashy , the loud brashness will wear off and I'll get comfortable with the over all look. (I guess I have a conservative streak :o ).

Anyway, that is how your stark green frame struck me at first, but after looking at the build up and the complementary colors it starts to look really good.

Oh yea, on the "shoot from hip instant diagnosis" I understand. It is just that I spent about 2 weeks studying that type of problem and the mechanisms for the voltage fold over along with spending way too much time discussing and debating the issue. Adding the single wire between the red R/R out and the + batt will confirm (with tests).

Posplayr
 
Sorry to bring up a dead thread, but I'd like to share some results that I had with a bit of elbow grease this weekend.

My bike was having issues as well, I could ride it all day and never have an issue but I couldnt shut it off or it wouldnt have enough kick to start again.

Everything tested out good (at least I'm pretty sure that it did, not an electronics genius), so I began looking for other issues.

Began by removing every bullet connector on the bike, replacing with nice new weathertite spade connectors. Found several leads that were corroded, overheated, even broke! Replaced ALL of them.

Seemed to make a nice difference in how the bike ran, but only marginally brought up the charging. I could now ride the bike anywhere and restart it, as long as I ran with the headlights off.

Made me think of what else I hadn't done. Next thing was to clean the grounds, sand the frame bare where the grounds contact, and touch up over the replaced grounds with black paint. Also direct grounded the R/R.

Rode all over Gods creation last night, high beam on the whole time, got back to the garage, shut it off, turned the key back on, hit the button, VROOM!

Moral of the story: 30 year old wiring isn't all it's cracked up to be. Ditch the bullet connectors, clean the grounds, and direct ground the R/R. The direct grounding made the biggest difference.
 
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