GS1000E Stator, regulator or rectifier fault find

[Guest]

Here are the results of the quick test with lights off:
4) At 2500 RPM - 13.00 VDC
5) At 5000 RPM - 13.50 VDC

that's pretty low VDC with lights off. does it get worse with lights on? I would do a test on your stator's ac output first. The regulator is not regulating at those voltages so you don't yet know if it's working or not. As to difficulty of finding the popular SH775 there, where snowmobile parts are probably rare! you can get by with an original SH232 or sh238? or the like (but no ebay 'replacements"!) that shipped on Goldwings and other Hondas. They work fine for me.

Are the original SH232 or SH238 series R/R's please.

 

[Gorminrider]

Are the original SH232 or SH238 series R/R's please.

No. They're so-called "shunt" type. But more rugged than the Suzuki ones.

Suzuki charging in the 80's is a real big deal here, but I don't see it discussed so much in other makes of bikes I've owned....

 

[Grimly]

Suzuki charging in the 80's is a real big deal here, but I don't see it discussed so much in other makes of bikes I've owned....

The Triumphrat forum is fairly well peppered with charging woes, rectified by an SH-775. Similar with some Aprilias and Ducatis.

 

[posplayr]

The Triumphrat forum is fairly well peppered with charging woes, rectified by an SH-775. Similar with some Aprilias and Ducatis.

All these bikes shared teh same basic problem of having a shunting R/R which puts heavy demands on the bikes to pull heat out of the stators.

My guess is that you have to pull heat out of a 400 degF stator using soothing bath of 270 degF oil.

This is all very dependent on many factors including riding conditions, ambient temperature the physical construction of the stator and it mount and cover. In other words a balancing act to stay cool; it can go either way.

 

[Gorminrider]

yes, heat is certainly a bad thing... I've only got one 4cyl-the 650 and IT has a stator I rewound for it....there's very little shunting going on and what there is is through a heavier gauge of winding...

I'm not so sure about the oil bath thing though. Suzuki stators seem to get particularly dirty compared to my hondas...
maybe this is how I get away with it...put it on my GSX400E beater as a joke but it's grown on me, as a "look"

 

[posplayr]

I’m not guessing. I have constructed an oil sprayer directed at the stator which lowered my oil temp substantially. Gs1166

 

[Rijko]

I’m not guessing. I have constructed an oil sprayer directed at the stator which lowered my oil temp substantially. Gs1166

Am i missing something here ?
The oil sprayer would pull heat out of the stator .. warming up the oil, right ?

 

[posplayr]

Am i missing something here ?
The oil sprayer would pull heat out of the stator .. warming up the oil, right ?

Obviously NOT!

At above 3.5K RPM the stator is a constant current device (i.e. I=KONSTANT).

Power dissipated is P=I^2R.

R increases with temp increasing power.

If you reduce temp you reduce R and thereby reduce Power dissipated by the stator.

 

[Rijko]

So i was missing something ! Knowledge :ambivalence:

Thanks Jim, learning something new here again !

 

[Guest]

I thought I would checkout the earth connections on the standard regulator and rectifier setup on the GS1000, whilst waiting for my voltmeter. My setup is the battery negative wire is bolted straight to the rear of the engine. The rectifier negative wire is 8 inches long with a ring which is connected straight to the battery negative post. The regulator has a short ground cable with a ring which is fixed to the regulator bottom mounting bolt. I have two black/white wires coming out of the harness (in a position just above the regulator) both with rings one was connected to the regulator top mounting bolt and the other to a bolt fixing on the battery box. Peculiarly the black and white ringed wire to the battery box was between the bolt and a washer but under the washer was a rubber mount. What are your thoughts guys. Can I move the black/white wire from the battery box and place it over the other ringed black/white wire from the harness to the top mounting bolt on the regulator.

.

Eventually the voltmeter has arrived and here are my readings with a new battery (lights off)

1) Ignition key off battery charge 12.89v ​

2) Ignition key on and engine crank - 12.3v​

3) 1000rpm engine idle -12.67v​

4) At 2500 RPM - 13.70 VDC​

5) At 5000 RPM - 13.69 VDC (when revs dropped back down to 2500rpm saw voltage increase to nearly 13.8VDC)​

6) Key off - 12.98v

Tested all three stator legs at 5000k rpm and got approx. 75 VAC​

 

[posplayr]

.

Eventually the voltmeter has arrived and here are my readings with a new battery (lights off)

1) Ignition key off battery charge 12.89v ​

2) Ignition key on and engine crank - 12.3v​

3) 1000rpm engine idle -12.67v​

4) At 2500 RPM - 13.70 VDC​

5) At 5000 RPM - 13.69 VDC (when revs dropped back down to 2500rpm saw voltage increase to nearly 13.8VDC)​

6) Key off - 12.98v

Tested all three stator legs at 5000k rpm and got approx. 75 VAC​

The results indicate:

• The battery is good.
• You probably have dirty connections. You can confirm this following instruction in Phase A. Measure voltage drops at 5K RPM. If you did a SPG, then it is probably on the positive side. The voltage increasing at lower RPM is characteristic of dirty connections.
• You did not do a Leg-to-Grd(case) test results at 5K RPM (should be 0 VAC). This is the most important stator test.

 

[Guest]

Hi Jim,

Will follow phase A instructions, and measure voltage drops. I have a single point ground using the regulator mounting bolt. Is the leg to ground done by using the +ve probe of the multimeter to each stator leg connector in turn and the -ve probe just touching the engine casing?. Many thanks for your help.

 

[posplayr]

Hi Jim,

Will follow phase A instructions, and measure voltage drops. I have a single point ground using the regulator mounting bolt. Is the leg to ground done by using the +ve probe of the multimeter to each stator leg connector in turn and the -ve probe just touching the engine casing?. Many thanks for your help.

Yes.

Voltage drops are at 5K RPM. You will probably see them increase with RPM becuase they increase with the amount of current being pushed from the R/R.

The SPG should have very low drops between R/R(-) (0.05V or less) and the battery assuming the connections are good.

 

[Gorminrider]

I suppose I'm cherry-picking, but it's a little hard to follow some of the logic.

My guess is that you have to pull heat out of a 400 degF stator using soothing bath of 270 degF oil.

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...or-rectifier-fault-find&p=2597605#post2597605


Originally Posted by Rijko

Am i missing something here ?
The oil sprayer would pull heat out of the stator .. warming up the oil, right ?

Obviously NOT! ....

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...or-rectifier-fault-find&p=2598087#post2598087

hmmm. If a fluid sprayed is to cool something, doesn't it necessarily act by transferring heat to itself? Given,of course, that the "something" is hotter than the oil....perhaps you have an oil cooler too?

If the solution is a "series" R/R, is an "oil sprayer" also required? Or, if a shunt R/R is used, would an oil sprayer "do the job"?

 

[posplayr]

I suppose I'm cherry-picking, but it's a little hard to follow some of the logic.


https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...or-rectifier-fault-find&p=2597605#post2597605


Originally Posted by Rijko



https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...or-rectifier-fault-find&p=2598087#post2598087

hmmm. If a fluid sprayed is to cool something, doesn't it necessarily act by transferring heat to itself? Given,of course, that the "something" is hotter than the oil....perhaps you have an oil cooler too?

If the solution is a "series" R/R, is an "oil sprayer" also required? Or, if a shunt R/R is used, would an oil sprayer "do the job"?

You selectively ignored the fact that the stator is a constant current device above 3500 RPM.

Most of the relevance of my statements are for the GS1100E's which have more heating problems (same motor as the OP). A sprayer might help the stator but not the Shunt R/R that is killing itself.

What appears confusing is you are ignoring the total power output by the stator is is a direct function of the stator temperature. I made step by step statements with formulas. Read it again.

If you cant follow that, then the essence of the principles involved is that the stator power increases the engine operating temperature. The direct evidence is the drop in GS1100E poeprating temperature observed by several people installing Series R/Rs. Ed will argue the point because it did not work on his GS1000E, but everybody else reported on GS1100E and those with 1166+ Big Blocks.


Before finding the Compufire, i installed a sprayer becuase i found my brand new stator turning brown after 200 miles. See the reported drops in engine temp after the CF installs.

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...u-Fire-SERIES-R-R-Install&highlight=Compufire

 

[Guest]

Hello Jim, just tried to send you a pm my friend, it mentions that your quota is full and cannot accept further messages

 

[Gorminrider]

You selectively ignored the fact that the stator is a constant current device above 3500 RPM.

yes. as irrelevant to my question...."If the solution is a "series" R/R, is an "oil sprayer" also required? Or, if a shunt R/R is used, would an oil sprayer "do the job"?"

A sprayer might help the stator but not the Shunt R/R that is killing itself.

also irrelevant, but, I haven't killed any of mine that replaced the Suzuki originals. They aren't particularly "hot" or even warm so I haven't any particular fear for their lifespan....

Still, from your indirect response, I gather that the sprayer is not required with every series R/R installation. Yet, you have one. So, given the premise (oft repeated hereabouts) that Shunt R/Rs overheat the stator, I think the effect of a sprayer is a fair question. (and yes, I am aware of formulas per heat and the conductivity of copper)

simple question: How much did the oil spray lower the temperature?

 

[posplayr]

I have to reach back in my memory to about 2010. My gut tells me a sprayer alone was nominally equivalent to series r/r alone. Combined I seemed to have double the effect. I also had an oil cooler but it was one of those small 550 coolers. Before any of the electrical/sprayer mods (but with cooler and before the 1166 kit)the bike would run 260-300 degF depending upon conditions. After it never exceeded 260 and in a cool fog dropped to 220 degF.

and yes I checked the sensor in boiling water it was all in spec.

this was a bored 1166 motor properly jetted (WBO2 sensor) and a wide range of conditions on road trips to northern cal.

 

[Gorminrider]

Thanks, posplayer- Those are "suprisingly" good results! Seem so to me, anyways. I must look around to see how you constructed it...though I can appreciate that if a "series" regulator is a similar fix for Suzukis, it's much easier to recommend them versus building an oil sprayer re: time and trouble, but I saw it mentioned several places and have been curious...

 

[posplayr]

Thanks, posplayer- Those are "suprisingly" good results! Seem so to me, anyways. I must look around to see how you constructed it...though I can appreciate that if a "series" regulator is a similar fix for Suzukis, it's much easier to recommend them versus building an oil sprayer re: time and trouble, but I saw it mentioned several places and have been curious...

I spoke with Chef1366 last night. He and I were on a trip through Sequoia Nat park. Our bikes 1100/16V were very similar except he had 1229 and I had 1166 otherwise same carbs, same cams. There was traffic in the park and we were lugging up a long hill. I had the mods and was running 250 deg. He was pushing well over 300 defF (measured with a oil filled VDO analog gauge). He might have even hit 320 before we hit the top of the hill and could pickup speed on the way down.

He thinks he dropped 30 degrees operating temp from the Compufire.