GS1100E - GP shift or reverse shift ideas.

[CivilRock]

Last night I took off the shift lever and linkage and fiddled around with it for quite a while trying to figure out how to reverse the shift pattern.

I've done this with all my road race bikes and it's just a matter of flipping around one of the linkages. On the SV650 it was a 90 second job. This one isn't going to work that way, and I'll have to do some sort of fabrication or funny business.

I'm just wondering if anyone has a quick and easy solution for reversing the shift pattern without replacing the whole assembly or buying rearsets.
And I did spend an hour searching here, but now I'm giving up and just asking.

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[Agemax]

turn the engine upside down?

 

[rapidray]

Install a shift lever that is JUST the lever, NO linkage. If you have to, lengthen one to make it work. Ray.

 

[CivilRock]

turn the engine upside down?

Didn't think about that, but wouldn't I be going backwards?

Install a shift lever that is JUST the lever, NO linkage. If you have to, lengthen one to make it work. Ray.

Actually, I did think about this, but it would be too close to the foot peg.

I think I'll have a solution after I go to the hardware store today. Might be kind of Janky, but we'll see.

-Kevin

 

[CivilRock]

Ok, here's what I came up with. Hopefully the pictures explain it all.

I bought a little generic ball and socket joint at the hardware store. Of course they didn't have metric, so I had to buy a metric bolt and a std bolt, cut the heads off and weld them end to end.

You can see I taped up the old ball and socket on the lever end in case I ever want to go back to regular shift. I pried a little on the socket, but I don't want to damage it trying to get it off.

Seems to work perfectly, but I'm going to keep an eye on it for a while. Any suggestions on improving this design are welcome.

-Kevin

 

[Triam]

to decrease the needed travel of the lever (how far your foot has to move to shift) if you cut the threaded rod shorter so that the lever that connects to the transmission is at a 90 degree angle from the threaded rod. Moving the bolt that connects the threaded rod to the foot lever so that the rod is also perpendicular to that lever will also decrease the needed travel, but as you decrease the travel more and more your leverage will be less (read it'll be harder to shift). I don't know if you care about having less travel, but as it is the needed travel is different depending on if you're shifting up or down, so if it were me I'd change it.

Just curious, what's the advantage of the shifting being backwards?

Nice fab job BTW.

 

[CivilRock]

Triam,

Good point and excellent observation. Actually, after I took these pictures I did adjust it so the neutral position left the joints at 90 deg angles. Also the tip of the lever was too low as well once I sat on it. I also moved the new ball/socket to the other hole on my little fabricated tab (always build in adjustment!).

There's 3 main reasons for me to go with GP shift:
1. It makes complete sense on a road race bike, and because of that, I'm used to it.
2. In 2005 I twisted my left foot 180 deg backwards riding MX. It was a rather severe injury and I've never fully recovered. My Dr. said I would never run again. I run, play soccer, etc., but it is a little weak pulling up on a shifter, and I have a lot of plates, screws, and scar tissue in there that limit my range of motion.
3. On my first drag racing experience, I slipped out of third 2 of 10 runs. Might be a worn out transmission, but I did feel like my weak ankle might have played a part.

Mainly it's just easier for me to make positive upshifts if I can push down on the lever.

4. It's just cool.
5. It keeps my dumb-dum friends from wanting to ride my bike. If they can't tell me what GP-shift is; they can't ride my bike.

Ok, that's 5 reasons.

PS- That little "tab" in the pictures is aluminum. I noticed it was flexing just a little bit when I was testing it out and I replaced it with steel. I'd rather not weld it to the shift lever, but I will if I have to make it more robust.

-Kevin

 

[kawfeedave]

Just curious, what's the advantage of the shifting being backwards?

Nice fab job BTW.

Kevin gave his reasons for switching, but the original reason that GP bikes changed to this is for more ground clearance and quicker upshifts coming out of corners. In a left hand turn, you might not have the clearance to get your foot under the shift lever so you can't have it ready to bang off an upshift as you come out of the corner. You also need to have the ball of your foot on the peg while leaned over to allow for proper body position. For both of these reasons, going 'down' for an upshift is a quicker option for a racer.

Downshifts are all done during braking, and 99% of braking in a race is done with the bike upright where you can have your foot under the lever, and your body position allows you to have the arch of your foot on the peg.

 

[Guest]

Hook up a co2 air shifter and push a button for upshifts? Saves stress on your pins and will really freak out your friends... don't forget to undercut the trans for easier shifts... Or do what you did for cheap... Good job...
Curt

 

[CivilRock]

Kevin gave his reasons for switching, but the original reason that GP bikes changed to this is for more ground clearance and quicker upshifts coming out of corners. In a left hand turn, you might not have the clearance to get your foot under the shift lever so you can't have it ready to bang off an upshift as you come out of the corner. You also need to have the ball of your foot on the peg while leaned over to allow for proper body position. For both of these reasons, going 'down' for an upshift is a quicker option for a racer.

Downshifts are all done during braking, and 99% of braking in a race is done with the bike upright where you can have your foot under the lever, and your body position allows you to have the arch of your foot on the peg.

What he said. I thought it would completely confuse me to go to GP shift, but it took about 1 hour of track time and it became completely natural. More than natural, it felt like every bike should be that way. Even switching back and forth from dirt bikes to GP shift race bikes was not a problem. Only one time did I ever screw it up and it was when I took a buddy's (regular shift) 929 street bike out for a spin on the track and shifted the wrong way going onto the straight. Whoops!!! Luckily he didn't see that one. :-$

Hook up a co2 air shifter and push a button for upshifts? Saves stress on your pins and will really freak out your friends... don't forget to undercut the trans for easier shifts... Or do what you did for cheap... Good job...
Curt

This is my $500 99% street bike. Although that would be fun, it's probably a little overkill for this application.

-Kevin

 

[CivilRock]

Most of the time downshifting is done when the bike is straight up and down. Sometimes up-shifting is done with the bike leaned over. Also upshift timing and precision is more important than downshifting when the brakes are doing most of the work.

All the reasons stated here, plus a personal one. When I broke my ankle riding MX, I basically twisted my foot around backwards. When I was able to ride again my ankle mobility was severely reduced as was the strength to pull up on a shift lever. I had moved to GP shift in 2002, and this injury was in 2005, but it took a long time to recover. For a while there I had to use my heel to pull up on the lever.

Almost every MotoGP racer uses GP shift. Most top level road racers anywhere use GP shift. That alone doesn't make it the best method, but noteworthy. Mat Mladin uses the normal shift pattern and he's no slouch.

It took me all of about 1 hour to get used to GP shift. After that, it completely made sense. And for some reason I have no problems going back to a dirtbike or regular shifting.

I would think that anyone drag racing would greatly benefit from it.

Impressive - but I'd point out your ankle is one down, three up from the midline...

All your points are valid but it's still down to personal preference really.

:clap: That's funny! Yup, I have a 4-speed normal-shift ankle.


My GP shift contraption made it onto the bike after my 1150 swap in. It actually worked out better than it would have with the stock components.

All that being said. I don't know if I can keep it. I keep shifting the wrong way on the street. I think the big difference between the street and the track is that on the track you're constantly shifting up and down, so it's almost impossible to get out of rhythm and make a mistake. Also, I've been riding a lot of dirt bikes lately, and my instincts just take over. I'm not ready to ditch it, but I'm not as easily adept at riding GP-Shift on the street as I thought I was. My problem it seems, is accidentally shifting into 4-5th when I come to a stop. I have to sit there and downshift once I realize it... or try and take off in 3rd or something. I don't feel like I'm going to bang it into 2nd at 9,200 RPM on accident or I'd change it right away.

Sorry about the long post.

-kevin

 

[GregT]

You've either got to do it on all of your bikes - or none.

As i've said before, I have customers who own bikes with left and right hand shifts - and both directions too.

I've made up quite a few linkages to change sides or direction of shifting in the interests of standardising an owner's bikes.

Good little earner at times....

 

[yank]

Buy a Norton.

 

[CivilRock]

You've either got to do it on all of your bikes - or none.

I reject your theory, and substitute my own: I believe that I'll train myself until it's 2nd nature. I really have less than 250 miles on the bike with GP shift. Give me a couple thousand and I'll be assimilated.

Just like going from a stick to an automatic. It just takes a couple phantom gear changes and you can easily acclimate from one to the other. I made zero mistakes on my commute today.

I rented a car in London for 10 days of touring the country, and driving on the left was a much bigger change than reverse shifting.

-Kevin

 

[GregT]

Can i point to a historical precedent...

The works Kreidler 50's in the early 1960's used a 4 speed foot change box in unit with the motor and a 3 speed auxiliary box behind that..which was operated from the bars, scooter style.
This gave 12 gears of course and required complex hand/foot/brain coordination to operate.
So the factory supplied road 50's with the same setup for the works riders to use every day...Till it became second nature.

QED....