GS450 Charging System Problem with fluctuating voltage.

[gs450dave]

Hello,

I had some problems starting my Bike yesterday.
Anyway I don't have any gear yet so I called the Road Side Assitance.

It was the battery, I got a jump start and it worked first go (BTW I don't even have jumper leads so I couldn't try this myself).
However he did some voltage tests on the electrical components behind the left side panel, and concluded:

- The charging system of the Bike was faulty as he got a variety of vaultage readings running through the Bike.
- He also said the Battery will not necessarily recharge if I leave it running.
- And I will need to fix the charging system.

Does this sound like a correct diagnosys?
If my Battery is flat can I recharge it by leaving my Bike running?
How expensive is the charging system to replace, does it exist, or is it made up of a number of components wires?
I've only had the Bike for a few days so I don't know how well its been starting/running/recharging etc... in the past.

Many Thanks Fellow Riders,

gs450dave

 

[redliner1973]

first, fully charge the battery with a 2-amp or less battery charger. the bike will not charge a dead battery properly. then go to the garage section of this website and follow "The Stator Papers". Also go through your connectors - every one of them- and make sure they are not corroded. even a slight amount of corrosion makes a BIG difference. Pay special attention to the Stator connector (Some, including myself, have removed the connector and SOLDERED the wires together) and regulator connector. Install an Extra 10Ga ground wire from one of the Regulator mounting screws directly to the negative battery cable. If you try and jump start a bike, do NOT have the engine of the vehicle your jump-starting from running. Try all this, then let us know what you find.

 

[gs450dave]

On my bike Manual it says the normal charging rate of batteries is up to 14 amp hour, capacity is 1 1/2 amps and higher rates will shorten battery life.

I went around looking for a charger yesterday, but the smallest I could find were 6v 1.5 amps and 12v 2 amps ones.

Is it advisable to use the 12v 2 amp ones?

Thanks,

gs450dave

1980, GS450E, 44,450 Kms

 

[IanFrancisco]

I see you're from Oz. I'm surprised you didn't find many choices for chargers. The 1.5A 6V model should work fine. I bought a 2A model that does both 6V and 12V for $30USD at Sears (Diehard brand, made in Asia somewhere). Don't use a 12 volt charger on a 6 volt battery!

 

[gs450dave]

G'day All,

I have now gone through the Stator Papers tests with the following results.

With the bike off the voltage of the battery is: 12.50 V
With the bike turned on and idling the voltage is 12.80 V
With the bike reving at 5000 13.50 V

After a couple of weeks and only 3-4 15 minute rides (all I got time for!)
With the bike off the voltage of the battery is: 12.40 V
With the bike turned on the voltage is 12.40 V
With the bike reving at 5000 12.80 V

All the connection tests passed.
All the stator tests passed.
I couldn't do the r/r test because my multi-meter does not have a diode test. However I've done the resistance test in the suzuki Heynes manual. When I put my multimeter in the resistance mode it starts with the number 1 on the left hand side. When I carried all the r/r resistance tests including the backwards ones, the multimeter stayed at 1, I can only assume that there is no continuity on all tests, I did not get any ohm readings even on the ones which were supposed to get readings.
According to this test it would seem my r/r is faulty.

Also when the bike is off I have found a leaking current of about 0.000200 amps (200 micro amps), I don't know if this is enough to drain the battery though.

My initial problem was a dead battery and fluctuating voltage when idling.
Since then I have recharged the battery, I have noticed the voltage sliding but not gone.

Does it sound like it is the r/r, does it look like the battery is also faulty as it does not charge to 13 V?

Many Thanks,

gs450dave.

 

[earlfor]

Standard battery charging spec's call for a charge rate equal to 10% of the AH capacity, so your 14AH battery's optimum rate would be 1.4 amps @ about 14 volts. There are no 1.4 amp chargers available that I know of.
A common 2 amp 12 volt charger will be just fine. (has been for me for 30+ years)

Earl

On my bike Manual it says the normal charging rate of batteries is up to 14 amp hour, capacity is 1 1/2 amps and higher rates will shorten battery life.

I went around looking for a charger yesterday, but the smallest I could find were 6v 1.5 amps and 12v 2 amps ones.

Is it advisable to use the 12v 2 amp ones?

Thanks,

gs450dave

1980, GS450E, 44,450 Kms

 

[earlfor]

I am not sure what you had connected or disconnected in the charging system, or what devices you had turned on when you did the checks. The numbers you gave are inconclusive. They may be correct or not dependon the how you did the tests.

Here is a simple way to determine component by component what is working properly.

1st, check and fill the water level in your batttery to the full mark on the battery. Remove the battery from the bike and put a 2 amp charger on the battery until battery voltage reads a minimum of 13 volts. Let the battery sit on the shelf unconnected and unused for 12 hours. If the battery discharges itself to less than 12.8 volts in 12 hours, the battery is not in as good a condition as it should be and I would replace it.

Install the battery into the bike with the battery once again already charged to 13 volts. Connect the battery terminals as normal.

There are 3 yellow wires connecting the stator/alternator (not really an alternator) to the R/R (rectifier/regulator) The 3 yellow wires from the stator end in a plug which connects the stator to the R/R. Disconnect that plug so the stator is not connected to anything. Set you multimeter to the AC scale (AC scale) 200 setting. The stator is 3 phase. To check phase outputs you will need to connect your meter leads to two phases simultaneously. If we number the yellow wires 1,2, and 3, then you will be connecting your meter leads to 1 and 2, then1 and 3, then 2 and 3.
You will need to start the bike and take the AC coltage output reading when the bike is running at 5K rpm. You should see 80 volts AC on each set of connections. Anything above 70 volts will be sufficient, not optimum, but sufficient. If you have 80 volts AC output at 5K rpm on all three phases, then your stator is working properly.

Shut off the bike and connect the stator to the R/R (the plug). Set your meter to the DC scale 20V setting. Connect the meter leads to the battery terminals. Make sure the battery ground wire is clean and tight and the connector from the red and black DC output leads on your R/R are clean and tight. The red and black DC output leads should be connected to your battery terminals. red to pos and black to neg. Start the bike with the meter connected to the battery terminals. Switch your headlight on and to high beam. Run the engine to 5K rpm. You should see a DC voltage level between 14 volts and 14.8 volts. Anything between aprox 14.2 and 14.6 is probably average. Higher than 14.9 is a faulty R/R. Below 14 volts is a faulty R/R.

At each step, you will know whether or not that portion of the charging system is as it should be.

Yell if you have a question. Lemme know what you get.

Earl

G'day All,

I have now gone through the Stator Papers tests with the following results.

With the bike off the voltage of the battery is: 12.50 V
With the bike turned on and idling the voltage is 12.80 V
With the bike reving at 5000 13.50 V

After a couple of weeks and only 3-4 15 minute rides (all I got time for!)
With the bike off the voltage of the battery is: 12.40 V
With the bike turned on the voltage is 12.40 V
With the bike reving at 5000 12.80 V

All the connection tests passed.
All the stator tests passed.
I couldn't do the r/r test because my multi-meter does not have a diode test. However I've done the resistance test in the suzuki Heynes manual. When I put my multimeter in the resistance mode it starts with the number 1 on the left hand side. When I carried all the r/r resistance tests including the backwards ones, the multimeter stayed at 1, I can only assume that there is no continuity on all tests, I did not get any ohm readings even on the ones which were supposed to get readings.
According to this test it would seem my r/r is faulty.

Also when the bike is off I have found a leaking current of about 0.000200 amps (200 micro amps), I don't know if this is enough to drain the battery though.

My initial problem was a dead battery and fluctuating voltage when idling.
Since then I have recharged the battery, I have noticed the voltage sliding but not gone.

Does it sound like it is the r/r, does it look like the battery is also faulty as it does not charge to 13 V?

Many Thanks,

gs450dave.

 

[gs450dave]

Thanks Earl,

I will do the whole thing again, but I would also like to give you some more details:

I have a 1.6 amp 12 v automatic charger. (You reckon this is OK?)
Battery looks in good condition fluid level good (marginally below top line)
In the past I have charged my battery to its full capacity (according to the charger).
With the battery disconnected from the bike it has never read 13V or above, always 12.5-12.8.

Previously I have also done the stator test as you have suggested with good results.

I've also done the r/r test as you have suggested and I did not reach 14V although this could have been related to the battery.

I will do the whole thing again, but I think it may actually be a combo of the battery and the r/r.
BTW I have heard there is a substance you can put on the battery fluid for batteries that have been sitting unused for a while. This apparently makes the battery charge better. Have you heard about this?

Many Thanks,

Dave.[/quote]

 

[earlfor]

A battery at 12.5 volts is only aproximately holding a 40% charge. The charging system cant work properly with a poorly functioning battery.
First thing to do is get a new battery. Test results are not accurate for the charging system if the battery is faulty. I dont know of any additive you can put in a battery to restore it. The two most common battery faults are sulfation (sediment builds up in the bottom and grounds out the plates), and long term use wears the plates down until there isnt sufficent area left to result in a functioning cell. Neither of these things would be remedied by adding more electrolyte or any other fluid. A new battery at Walmart shouldnt cost more than $30-40.

A 1.6 amp battery charger will be just peachy keen fine. Charge the new battery until it reaches a minimum of 13 volts. When you get the new battery filled with electrolyte, check the voltage. If it shows (for example) before charging, 12.4 volts, you can say thats about a 40% level. Full capacity should be 14 amps. 40% of 14 amps is 5.6 amps in the battery. Then you need to "put in" 8.4 amps at your charger rate of 1.6, while considering due to inefficiencies the battery will not accept 100% of the charger output and the charger will taper off its output with increasing pressure from the battery. 150% of total amperage accepted is a reasonable estimate. Needing 8.4 amps, divide by 1.6 rate gives 5.25 hours. 5.25 times 150% equals about 7 1/2 hours on an automatic 1.6 amp charger to fully charge the battery Less time than that may bring the battery voltage up, but much less time than that will be a surface charge and no accurately indicitive of capacity.

Earl

Thanks Earl,

I will do the whole thing again, but I would also like to give you some more details:

I have a 1.6 amp 12 v automatic charger. (You reckon this is OK?)
Battery looks in good condition fluid level good (marginally below top line)
In the past I have charged my battery to its full capacity (according to the charger).
With the battery disconnected from the bike it has never read 13V or above, always 12.5-12.8.

Previously I have also done the stator test as you have suggested with good results.

I've also done the r/r test as you have suggested and I did not reach 14V although this could have been related to the battery.

I will do the whole thing again, but I think it may actually be a combo of the battery and the r/r.
BTW I have heard there is a substance you can put on the battery fluid for batteries that have been sitting unused for a while. This apparently makes the battery charge better. Have you heard about this?

Many Thanks,

Dave.

[/quote]

 

[IanFrancisco]

The suzuki factory service manual I have only lists continuity tests for the RR. I posted them elsewhere in the tech section. These tests can be done with a simple buzzer or light test lead if your multimeter doesn't have a diode tester. The RR tests in the stator papers seem to be misleading because my brand new Electrex RR failed them, and they were written by anf Electrex guy!

 

[earlfor]

I have had new, fresh out of the box, Electrex R/R's fail the tests. I returned them and they were replaced, no problem or questions asked by Electrex. That was before the company changed ownership though.

Earl

The suzuki factory service manual I have only lists continuity tests for the RR. I posted them elsewhere in the tech section. These tests can be done with a simple buzzer or light test lead if your multimeter doesn't have a diode tester. The RR tests in the stator papers seem to be misleading because my brand new Electrex RR failed them, and they were written by anf Electrex guy!

 

[gs450dave]

An Update,

I recharged my battery, got the green light from the automatic charger.
I made a multi-meter reading and all I got was 12.85V.
Took it off the charger and left it on its own for 12 hours, did another reading and I got 12.55V.
I put some battery conditioner (helps with sulphation), recharged it again, made a reading and I got 12.86V (huge improvement, not).
From what you are saying Earl, this battery is no good because it cannot reach 13V + when charged.
I will get a new Battery and do the tests again.
Thanks,

Dave.

 

[earlfor]

I believe it is at best marginal. It should not drop in voltage from 12.85 to 12.55 while sitting for a few hours. A good condition battery fully charged and unused will probably drop about 1/10 volt in 30 days. A 3/10 drop in 12 hours.......hmmmmm I know some would consider that servicable, but I would not put it in my bike. It would be new battery for me.

Earl

An Update,

I recharged my battery, got the green light from the automatic charger.
I made a multi-meter reading and all I got was 12.85V.
Took it off the charger and left it on its own for 12 hours, did another reading and I got 12.55V.
I put some battery conditioner (helps with sulphation), recharged it again, made a reading and I got 12.86V (huge improvement, not).
From what you are saying Earl, this battery is no good because it cannot reach 13V + when charged.
I will get a new Battery and do the tests again.
Thanks,

Dave.

 

[gs450dave]

Finally I have a bit of time to update this thread.
I changed the battery, although in Australia the battery specified for my gs450, when fully charged is 12.8 V.
Carried out the stator paper tests and they failed at the r/r.
I changed the r/r and bingo no more recharging problems (even with my riding frequency which is once a week 1-10Kms).

Thanks for your help earl.