GS450L Resurrection Contemplation

[witttom]

Recently sold some GS850 parts to a local GS450L guy. In our short conversation, I mentioned that I didn't think a GS450L (or anything 'L' for that matter) did not make for a good cafe bike. Just my opinion, not worth much, no offense intended. Welp, ironically I just bought an 82 GS450L yesterday afternoon. It did not run, but it was all there, and I bought it with the intent to part it out. The previous owner gave me the old battery, so that I could use it as a core.

After I got it home, I cleaned it up and was really quite surprised at how much nicer it appeared.

I then thought maybe I would try to get it running. The old battery was showing 5V and would not take a charge. That's when I noticed that it was bone dry. I filled the cells with acid and tossed it on my automatic charger. I noticed it was then taking a charge, but was not convinced that this battery would actually hold a charge. Afterall, the PO told me it was bad.

Patiently waiting for the battery and deciding to wait for the battery before I try starting it, I keep loking at those buckhorn handlebars and they're driving me nuts. I hate them (no offense). So I decide to swap them out with some flat bars that I have laying around. I always tell myself, NEVER to do this. Don't start making changes or improvements to a bike until AFTER you've got it running. It's putting the cart before the horse, and it's bad luck. Hehe.... but I do it anyway, and I'm amazed at the difference.

So this morning I check the battery.

It's looking good. I slip it into the bike and hook everything up. I opened up the airbox and cleaned it out. The filter is on the verge of falling apart. The bike cranks over but has trouble starting. That's when I noticed that the choke is upside down, based on what I'm used to seeing on my GS750. So I push the choke lever down rather than up, and it fires. Running, but not running quite right. After a fair amount of tinkering, I've managed to get it to idle well, but twisting the throttle causes it to die. Both have good spark. I think (think) the right side is starved of fuel. Despite being told by the previous owner that these carbs were rebuilt (how long ago, I don't know), I think the main jet may be clogged on the right carb. Well, that's my hunch anyway.

So, it's running... but not running right.

I need to get it running right. If so, I just can't see parting this bike out.

 

[Guest]

Wow Tom, she's very clean! Definitely don't part her out, you can actually do good things with the 450L's.

Look at the forks too, they're not leading axle like the bigger L's...

Also, a slimmer seat and non-ape 'bars is enough to improve looks 100%...

 

[witttom]

Wow Tom, she's very clean! Definitely don't part her out, you can actually do good things with the 450L's.

Look at the forks too, they're not leading axle like the bigger L's...

Also, a slimmer seat and non-ape 'bars is enough to improve looks 100%...

Yes, the non-leading-axle was a selling point for me too.

I spent all afternoon on this bike today. I pulled the carbs (which I found moving the airbox back to be somewhat difficult), opened them up, found everything to be in good order, jets open, floats looking good, nothing that caught my eye as abnormal.

Put them back on, rerouted some cables to better suit my lower bars, buttoned everything back up, and fired it up. It seems to run ever so slightly better, but still bogs down when I twist the throttle. With the choke on 50% or more, keeping the RPMs up, I can give it gas and rev it, but at normal idle (without the choke) it just isn't happy with anything other than idling. I'd swear that I had a gummed up carb, but that isn't the case. I'm now at a bit of a loss.

Both cylinders are hitting, both appear to be getting fuel, both getting good strong spark, both head pipes getting hot... it just doesn't rev. Looking for suggestions at this point.

 

[witttom]

Carb/Revving issue resolved. Will post more details later.

 

[gk45011]

L bikes

L bikes

Damn it Tom! where was I when you picked this up? LOL Besides you hate L's/ :-\\\

Not the ideal cafe canidate but they have an appeal and some potential, no offense taken . Let me know if you decide to fix her. I have some L parts obviously that I won't be using on the Cafe rebuild. I will have to post up pictures and parts eventually.


PS- I agree the buckhorns feel like a$$, but that is just my personal taste. I just don't feel as involved with the bike and hate the look.

Gary

 

[witttom]

Damn it Tom! where was I when you picked this up? LOL Besides you hate L's/ :-\\\

Not the ideal cafe canidate but they have an appeal and some potential, no offense taken . Let me know if you decide to fix her. I have some L parts obviously that I won't be using on the Cafe rebuild. I will have to post up pictures and parts eventually.


PS- I agree the buckhorns feel like a$$, but that is just my personal taste. I just don't feel as involved with the bike and hate the look.

Gary

I never realized that the cruiser 'shape' of the bike, pretty much comes entirely from the stepped seat, and that the frame is essentially straight. Just shows my ignorance of the 450L. I'm not sure what 450L parts I might need, as I think I too will be going the cafe route. Not a full blown conversion, will try to keep any expense minimal, but I've definitely gotta lose that seat. The tank does not have the cafe feel to it, but I think I'm gonna keep it. It works well enough.

 

[witttom]

Oh.. and as far as my revving/running issues....

Carb sync made a minor (very minor) improvement. The factory air adjustment screws are blocked off from the factory, so you can't make any adjustments. I managed to uncork the plugs blocking the screws (a trick in itself). Pulled the screws all the way out (which again, was not easy) and blew carb cleaner through the ports to make sure it was clean, which I think it was. The factory had set the screws to 3-1/2 turns out. From the factory they're typically lean, but actually ended up settling on 4-1/4 turns out, which allows a lot more air in the mixture. My theory is, that the previous owner or whoever rebuilt the carbs went with main jets that were MUCH bigger. I thought they looked pretty big when I had them out. It was way rich, and needed more air. It's not perfect now, but it's pretty close. I might tinker with it a little more tomorrow after I take it down the road. I'm really anxious to see how it runs on the street.

 

[Guest]

Oh.. and as far as my revving/running issues....

Carb sync made a minor (very minor) improvement. The factory air adjustment screws are blocked off from the factory, so you can't make any adjustments. I managed to uncork the plugs blocking the screws (a trick in itself). Pulled the screws all the way out (which again, was not easy) and blew carb cleaner through the ports to make sure it was clean, which I think it was. The factory had set the screws to 3-1/2 turns out. From the factory they're typically lean, but actually ended up settling on 4-1/4 turns out, which allows a lot more air in the mixture. My theory is, that the previous owner or whoever rebuilt the carbs went with main jets that were MUCH bigger. I thought they looked pretty big when I had them out. It was way rich, and needed more air. It's not perfect now, but it's pretty close. I might tinker with it a little more tomorrow after I take it down the road. I'm really anxious to see how it runs on the street.

Glad you solved it Tom!

However... on these '80 - 82 450 carbs, that screw is a mixture screw, not an air screw. It enriches when screwing it out, and leans it up when screwing it in... so she's running a bit richer now going by that

 

[Guest]

Oh, one more thing... replace the carb float bowl screws with allen heads and it's actually quite easy to take them out and adjust the pilot and main jets without having to remove the carbs as the pilots and mains in these are also located in the float bowls.

I have yet to prove this theory but I think taking the tank off would allow me to get to the needles without taking the carbs out also...

 

[witttom]

Glad you solved it Tom!

However... on these '80 - 82 450 carbs, that screw is a mixture screw, not an air screw. It enriches when screwing it out, and leans it up when screwing it in... so she's running a bit richer now going by that

Thanks for the tip, and for the confirmation. My neighbor is a bit of a carb guru and was telling me the same thing. I was insisting that it was getting TOO much fuel, he was saying it wasn't getting enough. Looks like he was right, and I was wrong. Turning the screws out does indeed richen it up. I do know that I'm running a bit rich right now, but it's hard to complain because it is running so great. I might turn them back in a 1/4-turn or so and see if it continues to run so well, but I'm pretty much tickled where it sits right now. I have a minor (very minor) glitch around 4500rpm, but I wouldn't call it a hiccup or hesitation. This thing is a total hoot to ride.

Oh, one more thing... replace the carb float bowl screws with allen heads and it's actually quite easy to take them out and adjust the pilot and main jets without having to remove the carbs as the pilots and mains in these are also located in the float bowls.

I have yet to prove this theory but I think taking the tank off would allow me to get to the needles without taking the carbs out also...

I did notice that the jets where in the float bowls when I had it apart. I thought that was pretty cool. I was able to remove all the jets except for one pilot. It was stuck pretty good and I was scared I was gonna damage it getting it out.

I do like the idea of being able to change the jets without pulling the carbs. That cuts the time involved down to about 10%. Hehe...

My original theory that a previous owner may have put WAY too big mains in my not be true. Those jets just looked really big to me when I had them out. However, I pulled a couple jets out of my spare parts bin that I think (think) are 115's, and they're about the same size. So maybe this truly is stock jetting. I really don't know.

 

[Guest]

Good stuff Tom, and yeah I love my 450... I find it's an excellent size to have some fun on as it's light enough to throw around a bit and being only a 450 means you can wind the throttle on without going instantly nutso...

The stock jets in there should be a 17.5 pilot and 115 main, over here the stock mains are 117.5 and we're also lucky to have adjustable needles whereas I think yours won't be.

You're making we wanna get back and tune mine properly finally... I currently have 8 size up mains and it's definitely too rich

 

[witttom]

Good stuff Tom, and yeah I love my 450... I find it's an excellent size to have some fun on as it's light enough to throw around a bit and being only a 450 means you can wind the throttle on without going instantly nutso...

The stock jets in there should be a 17.5 pilot and 115 main, over here the stock mains are 117.5 and we're also lucky to have adjustable needles whereas I think yours won't be.

You're making we wanna get back and tune mine properly finally... I currently have 8 size up mains and it's definitely too rich

I initially took it out for the first Test Flight with no seat, no rear fender, and no tail light. I just wanted to see it run down the road and back. 2.5-miles later, I'm thrilled and call it a success. I come back home and scrambled to toss the rear fender and tail light on it. I decided to throw the seat on there too, as I did not have a substitute. Test Flight #2 was another success and it made me want to take it further out into the country to see what it would really do. Not really a smart idea on a bike that I was not real familiar with and only 5-miles of confidence building, so I checked the tire pressures and geared up (previous tests were in squid mode). Left again with the intent of making this a 1-TON Test Flight, but after 25-miles discovered that anything above 80mph started to get real sketchy, as I just don't trust the old front tire mounted on it, and I had forgotten and left the rear shocks clicked into the lowest position. 80+ will require some changes. I'm not even sure if it could pull 100 in top gear (maybe in 5th though?). I'm assuming 6th to be an over drive. Seems fairly anemic at that point, but it screams up thru 70+. Of course, I realized in this last Test Flight, that my speedo only goes to 85. Doh! It's one of those. Haha!

 

[Guest]

Sounds like you're having some serious fun!

Back in stock form, the max speed I ever hit was an indicated 140kph on the stock speedo, but experience since then leads me to believe I would've been doing 125 - 130kph max in reality.

At that speed, it developed a minor speed wobble so I backed off immediately as that was a little scary. The forks were scary soft! During the rebuild I discovered the factory shocks were set differently for pre load also, one on the highest and one on the lowest

Fast forward to a ride a little while back where the Acewell gauge shows my max speed as 131kph and it's a different world altogether. I calibrated the Acewell with a GPS so I know the true speed would've been about 128kph and there were no stability issues whatsoever. I now have Ikon progressive springs in front and Ikon shocks on the back. I was able to sustain that speed for a bit with no wobbles or anything and could've gone longer except we had to pull over for a Kat missing a master link...

I have no doubt finalising my tuning would've made that even easier

Oh, I should clarify I have my little home made fly screen on too which deflects the wind nicely... back when I hit the max in stock form with no screen it got a little blustery...

As for hitting 100mph... yes you definitely could but I reckon you're right that it would be in 5th rather than 6th and you'd likely need to wind her out in 4th first... 5.5K to about 8.5K are the fun RPM's with the stock exhaust... a 2 to 1 with pods makes it more like 5K to 8K

 

[gk45011]

You keep me up to date. Lord knows I need all the information, inspiration and advice I can get as I rebulld this thing. I'm excited to see what direction you go with it.

Gary

 

[witttom]

You keep me up to date. Lord knows I need all the information, inspiration and advice I can get as I rebulld this thing. I'm excited to see what direction you go with it.

Gary

I swapped in yet another set of bars this evening, but haven't had a chance to try them out yet. I was contemplating using my spare set of clubmams, but I just don't like the way that the work with this layout. Instead, I went with a red anodized set of low dirtbike bars. I have a similar set on my GS750 and lover them. They essentially give you that same leaned forward position but puts your hands out wider with more leverage. The added bonus is that you can see thru the mirrors easier. Will post photos later.

I think I might be going for more of a street tracker look and feel.

I've been dabbling with thoughts of swapping in a GS850 dual caliper front end. The wheel is the same style. Will look into this further to make sure it is a path that I really want to take. I've had that 850 front end sold three times now but my buyers keep bailing on me. It might be a sign that I should use it for myself.

 

[witttom]

Will any other seats fit this 450L? ...and from a 450E? What's my options? I've gotta get rid of this stepped seat. I want to keep my investment in this bike to a minimum.

 

[kawfeedave]

Will any other seats fit this 450L? ...and from a 450E? What's my options? I've gotta get rid of this stepped seat. I want to keep my investment in this bike to a minimum.

Just cut down the stocker. Remove the cover, and use an electric knife (Thanksgiving style if you have it) or a big serrated bread knife works too, and just trim the foam. From the look of the pics provided, you should be able to start at the rear of the drivers part of the seat, and just just hack most of that step right off. You could go straight back from there, but I think a small step is actually a good thing.

As for the cover, you might be able to work with the stocker, and pull the extra material under the pan before you staple it back down, or you could probably find a cheap generic seat cover for a UJM on ebay, maybe a 70's era CB750 or the like, any bike with a more-or-less basic oval-ish seat should work.

 

[witttom]

Just cut down the stocker. Remove the cover, and use an electric knife (Thanksgiving style if you have it) or a big serrated bread knife works too, and just trim the foam. From the look of the pics provided, you should be able to start at the rear of the drivers part of the seat, and just just hack most of that step right off. You could go straight back from there, but I think a small step is actually a good thing.

As for the cover, you might be able to work with the stocker, and pull the extra material under the pan before you staple it back down, or you could probably find a cheap generic seat cover for a UJM on ebay, maybe a 70's era CB750 or the like, any bike with a more-or-less basic oval-ish seat should work.

Despite my dislike for the style of the stock seat, it seems like such a shame to hack up a perfectly good stock seat. I would be more inclined to go find a stock seat pan I think, and sell off my stock seat to someone who actually needs it, and try to recoup some of my expense. I'm undecided though. We'll see how it goes. I'm still not 100% sure that I'm gonna keep it. I'm not entire sure if I can AFFORD to keep it. Hehe... something is gonna hafta go.

 

[Guest]

Tom the E/S seat won't bolt on and the frame rails on the E/S models are slightly longer than the L/T models. You would also need to fabricate some way of mounting it as the rear has a latch on the duck tail on the E/S to clip onto. That's why when I did my seat I kept the stock pan and duck tail frame work and just made a new fibreglass shell for it.

The T seat should be a bolt on from memory.

I did the foam for mine but got a professional to do the cover. It was much easier than I thought it would be.

I got two different densities of foam and used a box cutter and 120 grit sandpaper to shape it. The pink-ish foam is a higher density than the orange-ish foam to give it a firmer base and softer top:

Cost for materials was probably less than $40 (don't forget everything's more expensive over here) including the contact adhesive and box cutter.

The professional cover was... well a lot more expensive than that, but if you have someone who can do the cover for you or if you can tackle it yourself then that's all the better.

If I was to do this again, I would attempt the cover myself.

 

[witttom]

I'm not sure if I'll ever achieve my 1-TON quest on the GS450.

Swapped my GS850 rear shocks in on the GS450 this evening. The lowest preload setting for the 850 shocks are firmer than that highest preload settings on the 450. It's like a new bike. I also now have dampening settings on these new shocks (well, at least I think I do), which I've not messed with yet.

I also added a smidge of air to the front forks. I think they're only suppose to have a couple pounds though, right? I was showing zero. That too made a big difference. If I keep this bike, I'm still contemplating a whole GS850 front end swap. That would entirely transform it (and give me dual calipers up front).

Took the bike out for another ride this evening. I pushed it to 80mph. That's when it started to drift around a little bit. The suspension was more stable than before, but now what I'm seeing is a front tire that just doesn't want to go faster than that. Once I hit 85mph, I hit a bit of an aerodynamic wall and just couldn't push past it. I just can't get tucked it real well with the dirtbike style handlebars. I think I could improve upon that with a small cafe fairing and going back to my flat drag bars (or maybe my clubmans), but I don't think I can squeeze another 15mph out of it.

This is still more fun on a bike than I've had in a while. That little twin just sings and has loads of mid-range torque. I'm really having a problem letting it go.