GS650G vs. GS650M

[darkbane]

I've been wanting to put an oil cooler on my 83 gs650g and I finally found one on EBAy for a great price. It looks as though it goes on the Katana 650 of the same year.

My question is: If I buy the oil filter cover for the Katana model, is it just a matter of swapping the cover? Are the engines the same? or at least the engine block?

Would I run into any problems by doing this.

Since my bike didn't originally have an oil cooler, I don't want it running all the time, so I'm going to put in a thermostat bypass valve? Besides this, would anybody recommend anything else?

I'd appreciate any comments and feedback or advice.

Thanks

DB

 

[waterman]

Darkbane,
I contemplated purchasing the oil cooler and decided against since I would have been in the same state your in.

I posted here a week ago trying to find the differences between m and g models and didn't get response. This didn't really surprise me since I don't think they sold many 650 kats here in the states. Likewise, trying to find someone who knows this stuff on a smaller displacement motorcycle is limited.

As far as your question, I don't really know. After going through a parts diagram search on alphasports, it appears one side of the oil cooler lines attaches to the oil pan on the left side (#1 piston side). Where exactly the other line goes, I don't know. I would like to see on another later model suzuki where the oil lines connect assuming it would be similar.

Also have no clue about thermostat.

After the search, I did find a few differences in the motors. Most notably, the pistons and valves are different. Cams, cranks, rods, all show same parts numbers. Heads, cylinders, cases, have different numbers also but may be due to black paint. Carbs have same internal parts, different numbers again maybe paint.

The frame is different, later MD models had antidive, later rims, and looks like rearset footpegs. Only guessing since linkage added to gear shifter. Obviously bodywork, seat, gauges, footpegs different.

Sorry think I started answering my own question not yours. If you get oil cooler I would like to see how it mounts. Post some pics if you get it installed.

 

[darkbane]

Thanks for your response Waterman. It is difficult to find much information about the 650's in general. It's a pretty odd ball model. That fact probably would've made me think twice before purchasing my bike had I known that to begin with. However, I don't mind have a more unique bike, plus I continue to make it even more unique.

I have looked at the diagrams between the different models as well, and it's not very clear cut on how it's routed. I'm still looking around and I'll post pictures or links when I find more details.

As for the thermostat, follow this link. The second post of the thread is the thermostat I'm looking into getting.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=110806&highlight=oil+temp+gauge

I definitely don't want to run the cooler 100% of the time, so I think the addition of the thermostat is a must.

I'm still open for anybody else's input.

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your response Waterman. It is difficult to find much information about the 650's in general. It's a pretty odd ball model. That fact probably would've made me think twice before purchasing my bike had I known that to begin with. However, I don't mind have a more unique bike, plus I continue to make it even more unique.

I used to have a GS650G, bought it new, and lost it to a driver in Texas. I wish that I still had it. It was designed from the ground up for shaft drive, and Suzuki did a bang-up job with it. Only reason to not have one is the scarcity of parts. I imagine that the GS650G Katana is even more scarce.

 

[waltfen]

Luckily for you I have just stripped my GS650 Katana ready for powder coating.
Here's a picture of the oil cooler connections, they are part of the sump pan.
The connections are the ones under the oil filter cover.

 

[Zooks]

My suggestion - keep 'bumping' this thread until one of the other Aussie guys sees it. 650 Katanas were very popular here and there are still quite a few on the road (there were two 650 Kats on Ebay-Aus just this week). I can't give you the exact advice you want but one of the other Aussie (or English) guys probably will.

 

[waterman]

This is great, with the pic from Waltfen we know now that the oil lines just connect to oil pan cover. I know from checking alphasports that the oil pan gasket is same from both models. Hopefully one would only need to find oil pan and be set to go. The million dollar questions is whether the bottom end of the crankcase is different from g to M models.
Like waltfen, I have a 650g motor sitting on my workbench, waiting for time to be dismantled. If we can find someone with a M motor in pieces maybe we can get a visual pictorial comparison. I plan on tearing into mine this next week.

 

[waterman]

Try this link. No speaka da lingua but has pics.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Suzuki-GS-650-K...ryZ49889QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Definitely off of a 650m motor. You can see some of differences in oil pan porting. Don't know what shipping would run you. Seems kinda expensive for what it is.

 

[waterman]

Found another with clearer pic without gasket blocking view.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Suzuki-GS-650-O...ryZ49889QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[waterman]

Found some time.

Hopefully you can see through all the oil, this was my oil burner special.

 

[waltfen]

I'll take some more photos of the bottom tomorrow but at the moment its 10:20 pm in the UK.

 

[darkbane]

It's nice getting all of this feedback on the topic. I'm glad that it's helping more than just me as well.

It seems like it's going to require more parts than I thought to do what I wanted to do. Those oil pans look similar, but it seems like there's a bit more going on with the M model.

An alternative would be to find an Oil Filter cap with the Oil cooler holes that would fit our models. I've heard of some people taking their stock cap and drilling the mounts that they need. I don't think I'm up for that.

I'm going to start cross referencing to see which caps that have the Oil Cooler holes may work with the GS650G. Suggestions?

 

[waltfen]

Here's a picture of the sump plate off my GS650 Katana.

 

[gs650gt]

I second to Waterman and Waltfen... You need the GS650M oil pan. There are no oil filter caps with suitable connections for an oil cooler...

This topic interests me too. I have 2 GS650G:s and I have been looking for a swap Kat engine but they are really hard to find. GS650M was and still is really popular in Germany so You can buy parts from german ebay (when the shipping is worldwide), they' re quite reliable sellers. unlike italians (sad to say... )

 

[waterman]

gs650gt, glad to run into another member with 2 650s in the garage. I hope your not like me, switching parts from one to the other to keep one roadworthy. The front end, wheels, carbs are finally back on its original frame.

I would love to take a Kat out and see if there is much performance difference. I still think it is the fact that we can't get them that makes it so desirable.

As far as the oil cooler, I am pretty convinced if you could get ahold of an oil pan along with cooler and feed lines, you would be ready to bolt up and go. Installation wouldn't be too bad, looks pretty straight forward, should be able to do with engine still in frame. Big trouble spot would be to clean oil pan gasket off of bottom crankcase.

 

[tconroy]

I used to have a GS650G, bought it new, and lost it to a driver in Texas. I wish that I still had it. It was designed from the ground up for shaft drive, and Suzuki did a bang-up job with it. Only reason to not have one is the scarcity of parts. I imagine that the GS650G Katana is even more scarce.

I have an 83 650L which does not have roller bearings,it is sleeved and also has a high pressure oil system because of this.I have had no problems without an oil cooler but also wondered if it needs one.All parts for a 650 are hard to come by so if you see any out there pick em' up if they fit.I still dont know why they made the L model different than the rest of the 650's

 

[waterman]

I have an 83 650L which does not have roller bearings,it is sleeved and also has a high pressure oil system because of this.I have had no problems without an oil cooler but also wondered if it needs one.All parts for a 650 are hard to come by so if you see any out there pick em' up if they fit.I still dont know why they made the L model different than the rest of the 650's

The difference between g , l , and m models were cosmetic, both have same motors; plain bearing cranks and high pressure oil systems. The gs650E, chain drive, has the more typical gs roller bearing crank, low pressure system. The top ends are similar enough to use same head, base, and valve cover gaskets when staying within same model year.

Essentially, the 650e is a bored out 8 valve550, the lower ends even share same gaskets (clutch, generator, and oil pan. The e model did lose a gear when bumped up to 650. Several member here have successful grafted 650 topends to 550 lowers to gain better performance.

As for parts, Ebay has been fairly easy place to get parts. Quite a few parts are still available from dealers. Aftermarket was limited, always more parts for larger, higher performance motorcycles.

 

[tconroy]

The difference between g , l , and m models were cosmetic, both have same motors; plain bearing cranks and high pressure oil systems. The gs650E, chain drive, has the more typical gs roller bearing crank, low pressure system. The top ends are similar enough to use same head, base, and valve cover gaskets when staying within same model year.

Essentially, the 650e is a bored out 8 valve550, the lower ends even share same gaskets (clutch, generator, and oil pan. The e model did lose a gear when bumped up to 650. Several member here have successful grafted 650 topends to 550 lowers to gain better performance.

As for parts, Ebay has been fairly easy place to get parts. Quite a few parts are still available from dealers. Aftermarket was limited, always more parts for larger, higher performance motorcycles.

I have purchased all my mechanical parts from the dealer and saved on shipping charges.i have yet to run across used 4into1 exhaust systems.Ebay does have a good deal of parts from time to time for these.I have 32000 on my bike and it still runs like brand new and has no leaks at all.I have rebuilt just about everything on it but the engine and hope I never have to go that far.It is for sale if anyone wants to buy it.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi guys,

As for adding oil coolers to our bikes, I thought Mr. terry was the guy to go to. Seems he's in Australia. But I don't know if he makes one for the 650. See these threads:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=101412
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=118609
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=115884

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[waterman]

BassCliff, I don't believe this oil cooler connection will work on the shaft driven 650 motor since they don't have the oil pressure switch on top of the crankcase like other motors. I believe the oil switch is located on the right crank end under the signal generator plate. Not sure about 650E, but if similar to 550 case then it should work.
I think the original question centered around the fact that the 650 Katana came with a factory oil cooler and how hard would it be to graft to regular a 650g. Thanks for the links, it looks like a great setup for those it works for.