GS850 fixup?

[Big_Z]

Hello,
I'm a new rider/owner of a 1980 GS850G. I've had it for a month and rode it to work for a couple weeks. Seemed to run fine. Then one day on my way in I was cruising along about 50mph and when to accelerate but when i opened the throttle the engine noise change but i had no power. i downshifted and gave it throttle and again the strange engine noise and lack of power. I pulled into a gas station and it died as i pulled up to a pump. tank was low so i filled up and i checked oil level and it was OK. started it back up and ran it down the road and back adn seemed OK so i went in to work.

It seemed to ride fine the rest of the week then last week i tried to take it in monday and it was idling rough and when i got around the block to a stop sign it died as i tried to accelerate. I started it and it died again when i eased out the throttle. I put into neutral and started it and tried to shift into 1st and with the clutch fully in the gears were grinding when i tried to shift. finally got it into first and turned it around to go home. I had to roll full on with the throttle to keep it from dying and it kinda sputtered unti it got up some speed then power seemed to come back. i got it into the garage and took the truck into work. When i got home that night i took it for a ride around the town. it rode fine for maybe 10-15min without issue and then started having problems lack of power when i opend the throttle.



I bought the bike from an older gentleman who has had it since the mid 80's. I think he was good about changing oil and such but i dont' know what other maintenance has been done to it. The bike was in storage since 2005. it has 22k miles on the odometer.

There is oil on the engine i think it is leaking somewhere near the front of the engine above the plugs (yet oil level remains high so not a fast leak. do see a drop or two under bike after its parked). maybe needs a gasket? also the starter has issues. it has alway started for me but the starter is a bit "stumbly" and not strong.

Since then i'm been reading this site and others i've found online. I've found tons of info and decided to "overhaul" the bike to see if it a) fix the problem and b) run better. here a run-down of what i'd like to do:

new battery (done)
clean/rebuild carbs (replace orings)
sync carbs
check valves (?)
replace spark plugs (I pulled one plug and it looked sooty?)
replace gaskets
replace air intake boots
check/clean/replace air filter
electrical work (starter, etc)
replace fuel/vaccuum lines


So, if you are still with me after all that reading. my question to start with is: does that list cover the maintenance basics? will completing this list solve the power issues i had with the bike? what priority should i work on that list?

Thanks for your input. I am not a mechanic but I am excited to work/learn especially given the wealth of info i've found at this site and other related to it.



Aaron

 

[Clone]

You say open the throttle and the engine makes a strange sound, what kind of sound? Do the rpms increase? I am thinking not. It sounds like you should
1. check to see if it actually has an aircleaner in it
2. check the inside of the tank to see if it is rusted
3. check the flow of fuel from the petcock, nothing when it isn't running, steady stream when you suck on the vacuum line
4. pull the plugs and check that they are all the same color
5. if 1 yes (and it is clean), 2 No rust, 3 No and Yes, 4 Yes (beige) then run a 3/4 can of seafoam through the next tank of fuel all the way to reserve

AND the next time it dies quickly open the fuel cap and listen for an inrush of air. Would mean the tank isn't venting.
OH YEAH Remove any inline filters on the fuel line.

Could save you doing a lot of work to fix a simple problem.

 

[Nessism]

List looks good. By "air intake boots" I hope you mean the rubber boots that attach to the head, those are the ones that typically leak.

Clone also has some good suggestions: check tank, petcock. I'm not a fan of Seafoam unless you know for a fact that the carb o-rings are soft and fresh. Best to build the base line like you have proposed.

Good luck.

 

[Big_Z]

I'm going from memory and the engine noise changed in tone. instead of a roar it was more like a growl. (kinda hard to describe, sorry!)

-it does have an air filter.
-not sure about inside tank. i'll look.
-i think petcock is working. when i took the tank off the bike I wasn't getting any fuel flow or leakage from the petcock.
- i have new plugs to put in it. i'll check to see if all are same color.

 

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hi Mr. Big_Z,

There's lots and lots of 850G lovin' for you right here in your very own mega-welcome!

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)!

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***********************************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html
Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html
You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com
Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php
http://www.electrosport.com/
For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):
http://www.realgaskets.com
The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com
Carolina Cycle
http://www.carolinacycle.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
Moto Grid
http://www.motogrid.com
If all else fails, try this:
http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/
Used bike buying checklists:
http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp
http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html
Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki
http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm
Online Clymer manuals:
http://search.ebscohost.com/ Click on "Small Engine Repair" then "Motorcycles". User=library, password=library. Note: This link may not work if you are on a school campus.

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

First thing to check is the splined rear wheel adapter, common failure !! Push the drive shaft boot back & hold it with a rag, then try and turn the rear wheel

 

[79 sh850]

How is your charging circuit and voltage at the coils? How constant is the spark? I had something similar happen with my 79 850 and traced it back to loose wires at the harness.

If its not backfiring, then its probably getting enough fuel. Try taking a look in your airbox to see if there's gas from flooding (mine is never bone dry, but if there's drops of gas it's probably too much).

In my experience, when something dies suddenly its usually something simple. If you want to take the bike apart and perform all that maintenance, I would definitely wait until the end of the season since some of it can be involved once you start getting into it.

 

[Guest]

one thing at a time

one thing at a time

i'd look at the clutch first

 

[49er]

Valve Clearances

Valve Clearances

Welcome to the GSR.
As a new owner, one of your first priorities is to check the valve clearances. They become tighter as the kms increase until eventually they don't seat at all. When this happens, your engine will misfire and be hard to start. It will run poorly at lower/off idle rpms and won't perform until higher in the rev range.
Your symptoms may also indicate partially clogged pilot jet passages, since the bike has sat unused for the last 3 years.

 

[Suzuki mad]

This is a 'new' bike to you.

You are being given lots of informationa all at once which may seem like system overload.

The problem is the bike seemed to run out of petrol and now has changed noise as it runs. It also has a starting problem.

Why did the PO take it off the road in 2005???

The list that you posted at the top of the thread is not a basic mechanical service but more a check over.

Where to start? Its your choice. I would go with the first problem being the engine noise change. Is it making that noise when its in gear or just running? If the bike doesn't start check the battery, charging system and the starter clutch. It could be a simple case of cleaning all the electrical connections. Just move through it systematically and it wll soon be done.

The other best peice of advise is to ask lots of questions of the people who frequent this site. Combinely they know more than the handbook and have tackled all problems that a GS can through at you.

Suzuki mad

Just a thought, if you posted where you were in the world there might be a helpfull GS resource member close by to give you some assistance.

 

[Big_Z]

wow. lots of suggestions. while i appreciate the "quick fix" responses to get the bike back on the road. I would be more comfortable riding it knowing more about the mechanical state of the bike and knowing that certain critical pieces have been checked and updated. I'm willing to sacrifice riding time this summer to do so-- I just hope i don't get in over my head here

 

[flyingace]

Do you have an inline fuel filter? These are known trouble makers and most old timers suggest you remove it. Clogged filter would explain the symptoms.

 

[Suzuki mad]

You've bought a GS, and you are in over your head?

Go out and buy a CBR1000 or a VFR800. No way in the world you can work on that unless you are a fully qualified mechanic. There's no way you can seriously keep then running tip top. Load of $ (? in my case)

These machines are very simple (not a simple as a HD) and only a few things go wrong with them. Clean fuel, regular oil and filter change, minimal servicing apart from plugs and checking the brakes. Hard jobs are checking and changing the valve shims.

You have several possible issues with your's. The change of noise is a concern, could be this and that. The major worry is the drive train being shaft drive. Next is carbs and there are 'papers' on those (check out basscliffs welcome pack.) Then there's starter clutch and electrical issues of charging (again see Basscliffs welcome pack for stators.)

These issues sorted and the old girl will be running a treat without major expense. You'll have done it yourself and you CAN be very pleased with yourself. These 'old' bikes go on for 1,000 of miles. (Know of a guy with 198,000 on a GS1000!)

If in doubt post a question. Somebody will have 'been there, got the T shirt' and can help you out.

Suzuki mad

 

[Big_Z]

Do you have an inline fuel filter? These are known trouble makers and most old timers suggest you remove it. Clogged filter would explain the symptoms.

no, no inline filter

 

[Big_Z]

You've bought a GS, and you are in over your head?

Go out and buy a CBR1000 or a VFR800. No way in the world you can work on that unless you are a fully qualified mechanic. There's no way you can seriously keep then running tip top. Load of $ (? in my case)

These machines are very simple (not a simple as a HD) and only a few things go wrong with them. Clean fuel, regular oil and filter change, minimal servicing apart from plugs and checking the brakes. Hard jobs are checking and changing the valve shims.

You have several possible issues with your's. The change of noise is a concern, could be this and that. The major worry is the drive train being shaft drive. Next is carbs and there are 'papers' on those (check out basscliffs welcome pack.) Then there's starter clutch and electrical issues of charging (again see Basscliffs welcome pack for stators.)

These issues sorted and the old girl will be running a treat without major expense. You'll have done it yourself and you CAN be very pleased with yourself. These 'old' bikes go on for 1,000 of miles. (Know of a guy with 198,000 on a GS1000!)

If in doubt post a question. Somebody will have 'been there, got the T shirt' and can help you out.

Suzuki mad

]


hunh?! everything i've read on this forum is "GS shaft drive, great bike, very reliable, easy to work on" and now your telling me its a POS that requires a mechanic and go buy something else?

you can't scare me off that easily.

 

[Suzuki mad]

No Big Z, i'm saying that a modern bike needs a mechanical expert with fuel injection and computer plug in's to tune the ******** thing. (I know I teach kids how to work on them.)

A GS is simple compaired to that.

Work through the issue and you will have a great bike, very reliable, shaft drive, touring machine.

Oh and by the way you are in way too deep now.

Suzuki mad

 

[Big_Z]

learn by doing.

learn by doing.

ha! yes, I am! but i'm enjoying every minute of it. you guys will probably be sick and tired of me by the time i'm done with this.

 

[Suzuki mad]

Oh did I forget to mention, comfortable ride.

All these modern bikes kill my ****. I can go for miles on the GS.

Suzuki mad

 

[Big_Z]

not dead yet!

not dead yet!

Hello All,
got the bike back together tonight. cleaned/rebuilt carbs. new airboots. nothing else done yet. carbs took me a while to do and had to wait on some parts. so i wanted to put it back together and fire it up to make sure it still ran and my work so far hadn't monkeyed something up.

well, I primed the carbs and fired it on choke. it started but will not idle. if I use throttle to increase RPMS it sounds like its running rough and occasional pops out the muffler. also when I crank the throttle (in nuetral) the RPMs slowly rise to about 3.5k then spikes up quickly after that. after running a bit I felt exhaust headers and 1-3 are hot to touch but 4 is only warm. so i'm guessing one problem is something wrong with #4?

I would appreciate some trouble-shooting hints. should i work on getting it idleing first or figure out what is up with #4?

Thanks!
Aaron

 

[pbunyan850L]

Just real quick...did you sync carbs? Also does #4 have fire? Great tutorial on basscliffs web site about carbs check it. Good luck